a task of nationbuilding in a country that is not really a nation. more than a decade ago, when the afghanistan was already a decade old, had a conversation within secretary of defense robert in his office. i asked him, so when is the last time that afghanistan had a government that was throughout the country and the secretary answered, with one word. never, he said. so, once again we have received the lesson in the impossibility of nationbuilding, phrase that would have appalled churchill because it would've defended his his realism in 1955, the year churchill died, then lyndon johnson's former hubert humphrey said that he had the undertaking got it was exhilarated and he said and i quote, we ought to be excited about this challenge because here's where we can put to work some of the ideas about the nationbuilding. and the nationbuilding is a semi- oxymoron. it is a contradiction in terms, the phrase of building. and as churchill knew, nations like orchids or organic growth, they are not to be assembled and dissipate assembled and reassembled. and a

lab of your dreams and it was and is extraordinaryy after not too long after world war i from nationbuilding he doesn't really want academics but the's technicians and has a team of expert technicians to does whatever he says. then they have these meetings but then they go back to the lab and it is incredible because they are changing the world of biochemistry and he is under incredible pressure. >> and he was the man like the arch of the furniture in the horses but so now bringing up worldt war i that part almost didn't fit and i was surprised of his service world war i. >> sure. he was a german patriot and like many he believed in 1914 it was a just cause for germany and also of jewish descent and he was a homosexual was about as out as you couldit be at the time but particularly looking at german jews in 1914 they were very anxious to prove they were full-fledged germans and they signed up by the tens of thousands and also signed up for the calvary unit that was thee aristocratic unit and was drawn to it in a lot of ways i don't think he was a great soldier think he served admirably and g

it right, probably after going after 9/11 after 9/11 sort of morse into this, slips into the nationbuilding mission. it's an interesting question. what i thought about a lot and that sort of thought wow, is it this could've ended okay? one i've always seen being the most probable outcome of how we could've had a a more positivn game in afghanistan or one, even though that's a very loaded term, would be like let's say hypothetically that 9/11 happen. we would have to al-qaeda. the taliban left afghanistan. around 2002 or 2003 we made overtures to the taliban to try to incorporate them as like real minority stakeholders but get them involved in afghan government just so, you know, they had a little bit of purchase in there and work this incentivized to go start an insert music in. and have not invaded iraq in capital eye on the ball in afghanistan. was there sort of a political settlement that would have allowed us to get out? i don't know. maybe there was. that's all water under the bridge. i think one of the ways one of the reasons we slip, goes back to his i get stories we tell ourselves a