is that a nationstate attack? over these individuals that tried to take a little off the top? it's hard to tell without intercept and nsa intelligence whatever what's the motivation of these attackers will ultimately be. >> jordan robertson and michael kaiser, thank you very much. this is already raised the ire of government officials, one is the attorney general, who is asking the company some tough questions about what measures they had in place to protect that viable information. he will join us in an exclusive interview next. ♪ >> this is "bloomberg west." i'm cory johnson. here's a check of world news. an emergency visit to moscow today in an attempt to end the conflict between the pro-russian rebels and ukrainian government. john kerry was in ukraine today urging a diplomatic solution. a huge telecom deal in the u.k. bt group has agreed to buy wireless carrier ee. the deal is expected to be completed by march 2016 providing antitrust approval. lookout, apple. swiss watchmaker swatch, which knows a thing or two about making watches, is planning a smart watch. it's set to

and so the nationstate represents a shared fate and shared history and shared culture. in one of the things the european union tried to do was not abolished the love of one's own but redefine it so that there were two loves, your country and also europe. it's pretty much what they tried to do in virginia at the revolution. it was very hard those few months. and this is the underlying crisis of europe today, which is increasingly the institutions that have held europe together between 1992 and 2008 that are collapsing. meetings are held, votes are taken, but the fundamental innards are not continued. before that. map of time before the russian occupation, europe was a nightmare. in my life would not be what it is if it had not been for this. so there is one fundamental question. so is it possible this time for europe to fragment into a nationstates and not resort to what resorted to before. war in europe is unthinkable though it is being waged in the ukraine. the idea that you can have european nationstates return to full sovereignty and not live with the consequences is

it will not solve the nationstate national security problem, but it needs to be a tool in our arsenal. >> would you consider criminal charges against people who are kind of proliferating isis social media sites were involved in the isis social media production flex >> yes. you need to look at the particular facts and the evidence is. but that brings the use of the material support statute so this should be when when there's a dozen terrorist groups and you are providing your services to that terrorist group either by providing an actual material money technical expertise or your self these are cases that we have and will charge under the criminal justice system and that approach i think you saw in 2012 about 27 countries were part of the global counterterrorist form that produced something called the robot memorandum of best practices. what type of legal code should be on the books should enable you to bring the charges before someone commits a terrorist act and what i think you have seen since then is the adoption by nearly 20 countries of the criminal codes to address the cyber cond

the basic reality of europe which is a nation a continent of nationstates who share know faith we had just seen the decision by the european central bank to do what is called qe. it is interesting to find how they have to do it. the european central bank we will not distribute this money. each of the national banks we will print the money and are allowed to buy only there own debt because know nation wants to take part in the default of another nation. no nation wants to be liable for another nation's irresponsibility and each nation wants to control how it is spent and that just happened last week. the reemergence reminds us not only that europe is divided but that for the for millennia it has been a place of conflict and more. it may it may be coincidence, but that war is already there in ukraine. being faced by nations like poland and romania who look to nato to help them. that is a loss of sovereignty and commitment. the americans announced that the united states is pre-positioning tanks in the whole and can account hungary, and the baltics. that may not have been noticed by many

the nationstate represents the shared fate a shared history, a shared culture, a love of one's own. and one of the things the european union tried to do was not abolished the love of one's own there we define it so you have two loves you for your country in europe. this is the recess today. between 1992 and 2008 are collapsing. meetings are held both are taken, but the fundamental inner of the system isn't working. before that period, before the american and russian occupation, europe was a nightmare. my life wouldn't be what it is if it hadn't been 31 years of horror. so there is one fundamental question. is it possible this time for europe to fragment into its nationstates and not resort to what they've always resorted to before, war. war in europe is unthinkable yet it's being waged right now in ukraine. the idea is that you can hide european nation he returns to full poverty is the great test and ultimately you cannot have 52 countries living in the sack at smallest continent in the world. in a place where there are multiple histories, multiple languages and multifold narratives

is that a nationstate attack? these were individuals that tried to take a little off the top?s hard to tell without intercept and nsa intelligence whatever, what's the motivation of these attackers will ultimately be. >> jordan robertson and michael kaiser. the executive director of the national cyber security alliance. i also spoke with a connecticut attorney george jepsen who sent an angry letter to anthem demanding answers about that hack. take a listen. >> it seems that the hackers are always one step ahead. i think whole industries, for example, the credit card industry needs to have some kind of shakeout where we shift from magnetic bands to embedded chips, like they do in europe. i think we have reached tipping point on these data breaches. >> jepsen is part of a task force of state attorneys general that is looking into the number of breaches that have happened from target to home depot and beyond. up next, 3-d printers can make houses these days. like these houses in china. but are 3-d printers really the future? the next big technology or the next big technology plus

and this is another tool in the toolbox to try to bring them back for justice. >> you mentioned nationstatesng them? and he's actually helping them get money? >> you know i don't know if russia is backing them at all, but i know that money buys you a lot of things. we will work through the criminal process and with the department of justice and our liaison with russia and see what happens. >> how does he do what he does? so you name it. how does he do what he does and what is he doing? >> unfortunately he is one of a lot of people who does this type of crime nowadays, very sophisticated hackers sticking out into different countries they attack making infrastructure and quite frankly people dislike you or me and the main reason for it is monetary they are trying to bring in revenue from wherever they can. the big difference between the hackers nowadays compared to old criminal type violations is that they can go out and commit seven or eight, 10000 bank robberies in a minute around the world using cyberskills. neil: used to be for the thrill of it, but now i assume they are doing it for the m

. >> profit motivated criminals and hackers and extremists and capable nationstates like russia, china north korea, and iran, are all printed and shall- -potential adversaries that could do harm. >> the world is at the highest level of political instability since 1992 and has the greatest number of displaced people around the globe since world war ii. earlier today, nancy pelosi addressed the current stalemate in congress over funding the department of homeland security. she read a statement from a republican in an unusual move. >> we cannot allow dhs not to be funded. people think we are crazy. there are terrorist attacks all over the world and we are talking about using homeland security. peter king then said this is like living in a world of crazy people. they have sold tomorrow to extend for it will shut since three provisions on immigration reform. the hangup is now in the house. it already passed the homeland funding measure with provisions to block the executive action from the roof president. the next move is from the speaker john weiner. >> no decision has been made on the hou

>> the one you worry about his nationstate threats.that is when a foreign government wants to use cyber warfare. that is a catastrophic event. on a day-to-day basis, it is every day hackers trying to steal money. >> we can buy everything on her phone. shouldn't tech companies work with the government? >> we should because there are losses. we should come up with new ways to buy things. we are still playing with cash and plastic. technologies that have been around for 40 years or 400 years. >> is there something the government can do for tech companies? they are so worried about foreign companies stealing their trade secrets. >> the first thing the government can do is get out of the way. that is to remove barriers to sharing information for companies to do the right thing. the second is to give them a reward for not getting hacked. immunity from high ability or something like that. >> that is something big government is talking about. trying to get a law through congress. >> i think it is something democrats and republicans can agree u

a key is getting individual nationstates and their governments willing to provide assistance and share information to our law enforcement. and so we do that in a number of ways. we do that through treaties. we do that through the fbi secret service cooperatively jointed states. there are some states less willing to cooperate. that is a reality. so one can try to leverage it, whether it is economic and diplomatic means and the pressures, to actually get them. you need to find states that are able and willing. how you help on the able side is you do capacity building and train them and educate them. but if they are unwilling, it takes a little bit of encouragement or economic pressure to get them to cooperate. it is necessary to solve the threat. flex west palm beach, florida. -- caller: probably cyber security warrants a more -- [inaudible] -- the united states cyber spying where we drew insecurities and not conform cash nonconformities from the other countries by simply spying on them. that includes a trade and market failures. guest: certainly the revelations of mr. snowden and the su

generally seen as stable and a beacon of democracy -- what will that do to the whole concept of nationstates? and quickly, simon, i had it teacher at usc called warren bennett. he said something that, leaders are like beauty. you know when you see it. so my question for you is, in your research, do you still believe it is something that people are born with? can it be adopted? can they be taught? frank: in answer to your question, i would echo something that nicolas said earlier, which is that i think one of the big problems in the world right now is when someone like xi jinping or putin gets up and they say, look at us. we are on the move. we are making decisions. and then the point to washington or to brussels, and they say, and look at these democracies that are really gridlocked. i think in the long run, i do not believe that this is the right argument, because i think they have got a lot -- especially russia, but china as well -- they have a lot of problems with sustainability of the china model and so forth. and i think there are resources that democracies, but particularly the united

you have seen, you look at what happened with sony and with nationstates attacking u.s. financial websites, those are all things that, were it successful were our abilities to as private citizens access our funds, if there were -- if that were ever contested, think of the implications or us as nations and as individuals. >> which states are capable of carrying out such attacks? >> we've talked about the big players in cyber, nations we see active. we have talked about concerns about china. clearly, the russians have capabilities. we are mindful of that. you won't see me go into, this is my assessment of every nation. >> that is two. china and russia are capable. do you find that they are, in smaller scale attacks, there was one that went through the white house computers. you find it they are, on one hand, showing off their ability, and on the other hand, finding the weak points? >> i think nationstates engage in action, in penetrating systems in the cyber arena for a whole host of reasons. among them, things you have identified. whether it the the theft of intellectual

testing this philosophy because large organizations are facing some serious threats both from nationstatess sophisticated criminals. cory: jordan robinson, thank you very much. bwest bite one number that tells us a lot. mary childs has it for us. >> it is 23 -- it's the average number of hours per day a car is parked. jeffrey dunlop thinks this makes the industry right for disruption. with people increasingly using car sharing apps like uber people stopped needing cars as much and that means trouble for ford, gm and other automakers. cory: he's not an equity guy but the era's notion of not wanting to belong any part of the auto industry is fascinating because of the threat of uber. >> there are still dividend yields on these stocks and they are good investments for the near term, but in the longer term, it's a fresh indicator as we all reduce our use of the car. cory: the sharing economy doesn't make winners for everyone. thank you for joining us. you can always get all the latest headlines all the time on your phone come a tablet on bloomberg.com and bloomberg radio. we will see you with

we just talked about two nationstates. we are seeing a variety in the playing field of different actors and different targets expanding on a daily basis. >> the serious story about them using hot babes -- i'm trying to imagine what anthem does. when and some calls fireeye what does fireeye do as soon as you hear about the threat of the new hack? >> the key to an investigation is taking the time to understand what the attackers do once they got in the network. were they stealing data, what type of data were they stealing, how were they doing it, and what were the tools behind it? we are always reluctant to jump to a conclusion about who is behind something. we want to get details and not just say since this tool was used at a bank, and must be the same group. we wait to make those assessments until we really know the lay of the land. >> how do you do that? is this like a harvey keitel character? what happens on the ground? >> it depends on every investigation. sometimes we are on the ground. the most important thing is havi

soil from nationstate entities. marked first by the durham attack against the -- the north korea attack against sony and november. these destructive attacks demonstrate that iran and north korea are motivated. russia and china continue to develop very sophisticated cyber programs. while i cannot go into detail, the russia cyber threat is more severe than we previously assessed. chinese economic espionage remains a major threat, despite details. skating public indictments. -- scathing public indictments. cyber actors expressing support for isil. hacking several social media accounts. the cyber caliphate. two weeks ago hacked newsweek magazines twitter handle. the most pervasive cyber threat to the u.s. sector is from cyber criminals. criminals responsible for cyber intrusions and 2014 into jpmorgan, home depot, neiman marcus, and other companies. in the future, we will see cyber operations that change electronic information that compromises integrity. instead of deleting or disrupting access. in the end, access canno

and it's the first to assume at least some characteristics of the nationstate. spillover from the conflict is raising the prospect of instability in lebanon, jordan and saudi arabia. in iraq's sectarian conflict in the next areas are growing and if not wanted well undermine the progress against isil. the prime minister has begun to alter the action of sectarian tone in iraq the resistance from the shia political allies and to persist this trust him on the iraq e. leaders will limit progress towards a stable" said political environment. isil's ability to conduct large-scale operations in iraq has been degraded by the coalition airstrikes and the provision of weapons and missions by the u.s. and other allies and is defended the defenses by the iraqi security forces, the kurdish push murder by the militants and tribal allies not to mention the iranians. however, isil remains as we have seen a formidable and brutal threat. moving to cbi and parts of western syria, the regime data consistent gains in 2014 but will require the years with two reasserts the significant

i would like to see nationstates to also take part.o there is no longer a time to be slicing and dicing who is doing what where. we have done that for 14 years, trying to checkboxes about who said what where. we are at a critical point where one part of the planet is muslim, 62% of those people are under the age of 30 and that is the demographic of the bad guys we are going after, and it is time for us to get serious about how to stop the recruitment from happening. symbolically, we have to see jordan and others, but we have to do more at the community level. mark: ok, speaking of the community level, you know what the talk has been in the past. will that pr campaign begin and end with this is not a war against islam? ms. pandith: it is not a war against islam, and if we have learned anything, it is a way to stop recruitment from happening at the community level, and what we have to do is inject the kind of resources and the kind of support at the community level that knows how to stop a young person from moving in a direction that the

what the north koreans did was somewhat unprecedented, and that a nationstate hacked -- not just hackedbut inflicted destruction -- physical destruction -- on a private entity and then sold some data. -- stole some data. >> have you seen the president change as those events causing to say, i thought this but now i think this. this has risen genetically. >> the landscape and the issues have evolved. i will come back to that. i think his basic judgments and instincts and his intellectual approach to problem are quite consistent. the landscape has evolved. we talk about this in security strategy. when he came to office, our economy was in crisis. we were trying to prevent a global economic collapse unemployment was much higher, we had not read to the benefits of our burgeoning energy production . from a variety of perspectives the strength of our economy employment, energy security the fact that now millions of americans who didn't have health care have health care, we are graduating more people from high school than ever before, the fabric of our nation is substantially stronger than it w

a nationstate hacked, not just hacked but inflicted destruction , physical destruction on a private enterprisembarrassed everybody in the company. >> told some data. >> -- and then stole some data. >> you are very close since the campaign. have you seen the president change? have events caused him to say, i thought this but now i think this. this has risen dramatically as an issue for our concern? >> the landscape and issues have evolved. i will come back to that in a second permi. i think his basic judgment and instincts. his intellectual approach to government solving are consistent. the landscape has a vault. we talk about that in the national security strategy. the economy was in crisis when he came to office. we're trying to prevent a global economic collapse. economics -- unemployment was higher. we had not read to be benefits of burgeoning energy production. -- reaped the benefits of burgeoning energy production. the strength of our economy, employment energy security the fact that millions of americans that did not have health care are now covered. the fabric of our nation has substant

so it becomes really easy for any adversary, whether a nationstate or a simple bad guy cyber criminal whatever they want to on the box. >> so what kinds of things do you think the nsa can pick up with a hack such as this as opposed to the data hacks that we know about in the past? >> well, and it could be nsa it could be even israeli defense as well. they have similar targets in of course middle east and asia that nsa or other organizations are. and in terms of attribution it's very, very difficult to give smoking gun proof back to the people that are on the keyboard. but certainly possible -- highly possible and probable that someone like nsa is a part of this. we just don't know definitively yet. in terms of what they can do geez, darn near anything. they could pretend to be the user of the computer. they could infect it in such a way where they could capture screen shots, follow your video. they could capture all your passwords and become you on your internet, take your persona. they could infect your access to your bank account. you name it. it really is just up to the creativity

and it is the first to assume characteristics of a nationstate. spill over from the syrian conflict is raising the prospect of instability and live the -- lebanon, and saudi arabia. it is growing, and it will undermine progress of isil. resistance from sheet allies and leaders will limit progress to our political environment. isil and their ability to conduct large-scale offenses in iraq and other allies, stiffen defenses against iraqi forces, sheet militants and tribal allies. not to mention the iranians. however i still -- isil remains a brutal threat. moving to syria, and parts of western syria, the way regime has made gains in 2014, but it will require years to reassert significant control of the country as a whole. the regime has a clear advantage over the opposition, which is plagued by logistical shortfalls. right now, they are incapable of militarily hosting a saudi and will probably remain so in 2015. assad is confident and thinks the war is winnable. the conflict will continue to threaten the stability of regional neighbors and foster th

the vast majority of espionage issues will be done by employees, rogue nationstates, and candidly organizedme. we are going to try to transition to a security company. today, the people in this room have 70 security companies in their environment. that means you have none. the bad guys while to get around. you take a problem and say how do you solve it? espionage issues will be done >> absolutely do. if you watch what most of my customers view >> absolutely do. if you watch what most of my customers view and concerned about, it is the emerging markets. a data point, the emerging markets are in the mid-teens. mexico went for 15% growth to flat and one quarter, year over year and the next year -12%. it was a good forerunner. if rates are raised dramatically, you would choke growth in emerging markets. there's only one engine going well and that is the u.s. 3% growth, not bad. if rates and get raised, it. the world. our central breaks have to be concerned. yes, it really could. >> china, speaking of emergening. not so emerging anymore. describe how you feel about the complicated relationship b

the nationstate, if you will, in part of the region.s that there are countries that understand and are trying to come to grips with it, and that's more down and there's a number, i think seven countries are trying to work against boko haram right now that come together. there are some economies are,, particularly down at the center of southern part of africa that are good models for the rest of africa but the size of the population in the 15 to 30 year old category of young men have nothing better to do than to join these groups is probably the fastest growing population demographics on the planet today. >> great, thank you. i yield back. thank you, mr. chairman. thanks for your time. >> thanks a gentlelady. and thank you all for being here. as many topics as we got today we did get to everything. i'm sorry, to give something you, you want to add on that last point? >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for the question al-shabaab conducted twice as many attacks in the first nine months of 2040 as it did in all 2013. boko haram will lik

not easier, but those are more resolvable than a nationstate attack.u will bring those folks to justice. it is far more likely we will see a resolution to this case because it seems the government believes they would have strong leads on the criminal side. betty: thank you for joining us. jordan robertson. it is a great story. you can read online. that does it for today. tomorrow, harvard study is stirring up a fresh debate over too big to fail. does dodd-frank make the biggest frank -- the biggest banks even bigger? zillow ceo taking over the digital real estate world. his company just completed an acquisition of trulia. ♪ ♪ >> live from bloomberg headquarters in new york, this is "market makers" with erik schatzker and stephanie ruhle. >> greases request -- greece's request for more eurozone aid doesn't meet the euro zone conditions. we will talk to a developer with a multibillion-dollar portfolio. he cuts prices and steals customers away from the other guys. when will john ledger deliver more earnings? we will ask him. good morning, everybody. like

if you're serious about protecting the status of nationstates, you have to protect the integrity. isis did not exist 3 or 4 years ago. the guy who is the leader was in a prison in southern iraq. >> with that, we have 15 minutes to go. i have no doubt that the governor's speech and answers to my questions have provoked -- >> great questions. >> except for the one. [laughter] have provoked comments from the audience. raise your hand. you have to wait for the microphone. how about this one right here. can we get a microphone? >> thank you for this wonderful talk. my name is professor bernadette. i'm interested about the comments you have made about our recent engagement with cuba, that patients would have yielded a better result. that struck me as strange because we have been patient for over half a century. is sounded to me that you were saying the catalyst is going to be the oil prices. but we know the collapse of the soviet union did not do it. why do we have cause to think that the change of the oil prices and venezuela is going to do it? why not have the courage to say that this

if we are trying to reach and reorient their point of intervention, so often we talk about the nationstates. america is corrupt or not corrupt. we know zimbabwe is more corrupt than denmark. what are the interventions, what are the institutions? that might be a area. >> well, i think we've described some of them already. the reason i talked about that and i feel like i should sing it now, but i won't. it's because it was just a little example of this sort of parity strategy that was used by the yes men and there are different kinds -- different groups like that that is used basically a lie, what they did in one case was they put out in the media that the company responsible for the disaster in india in the 80s that company would send the money get reparations as people whose lives were ruined or seriously offended by it. of course that wasn't true. but it forced the company to respond to that. so there's that eerie sort of crazy thing. that is really ad hoc and piecemeal is not systemic. we talked about regulation. of course, one of the things we need to do is understand that regulation doe

hans: visalia basically solidifies the nationstates, and with clear and a marketed borders, that wasn by crimea. we may get some sort of solidarity. the question we will hear from merkel and hollande is, will they call the cease-fire over? you have seen 49 attacks, according to ukrainian authorities, in the last 24 hours. they are parading hostages around. it is hard to see how this is a cease-fire and if merkel and hollande acknowledge that, we may be back to a diplomatic drawing board or back to an additional round of sanctions against russia. brendan: hans nichols, thank you very much. i want to bring in our guest host for the hour, david stubbs of jpmorgan asset management, a global asset strategist. and jim nussle, the former director of the offices management and budget under george w. bush. you have done your time in washington. let me turn to david stubbs. do you watch negotiations in brussels hour by hour, day by day? what is the trigger that you are looking for to make a decision? david: my team in london is sending out all these e-mails about the latest thing that has happ

if you are serious about protecting the status of nationstates, you have to be able to protect the integrity. steven: his first speech was a detroit. as you indicated, in chicago last week, focusing on foreign policy. "the new york times" reacting. he called it jeb bush's brainless trust. it is pointing out that some veterans, including jim baker who served for george bush and ronald reagan are the people advising jeb bush on foreign policy. these are the people advising jeb bush when it comes to foreign-policy. is that good or bad for jeb bush? daniel: i think he is in a tricky spot. if you're running for president who'd you turn to. you turn to people with experience. it just turns out that his brother and his dad have experience. he is dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't. he can't really connect or have advisers they don't have this experience. it is a little bit of a problem and is reminiscent of previous a administrations. i do think in a way that is unpreventable. in the same way that hillary clinton will have advisers from president obama as well as her own husband. those of the t

eurozone nations, and it is clearly a strategy to try to increase direct bargaining power with eu nationstateswhy? because greece knows very well that the quickest way to its election promises is to ask troika for a debt write off. it is just not going to happen. it is very difficult, across the eurozone for any national government to ignore it seems to be a very public, popular revolt against eu austerity, which is what it has come to represent without facing a risk of a revolt. >> so will greek depositors continue to pull money out of the banks as they have done and a billion euro pays in the runoff to the election and will the bond yields continue to rise? 2.5 percentage points last year alone. >> there is a suggestion that they do not need the troika bailout come at a time when it is already at a record low and 2 billion, and there is the unsustainable strategy with a banking system that is hemorrhaging in terms of declining equity prices but also a flight of deposits. it does mean they will likely face higher yields only set to rise from here. becoming a liquidity crisis this is the way o

we tend to work in the borders and the nationstate and fundamentals of the regional actors and the fundamentalsof the theory of that reactor theory meaning i punch you, you punch me back. what are you doing why are you not punching me back? sometimes we lost. i think with both of the author officers pointed out in the line of the block charts is quite complicated how did you maneuver and we will put out to the crowd today that it isn't new. we have seen these demarcations and lenny before i was in serious in 1982 and in 1982 syrians asked me what i was going to do but never mind. you get to see these split through. there's a lot of personality involved, a lot of personal interest. at the end of the day, it was who knows why actors do what they do. in 2008 when i was in the negotiations so self set up by general petraeus, mike was with me in the audience back there. he wrote a great article on michael saying how the iranians are the best thing that isis can have. those with the same intellectual brilliance of failure and i mean that, they would come in and lay out these charts about how this guy

concern in the cyber and space domains where we see increasingly capable and aggressive activities i nationstate adversaries in areas where we have few established norms. i appreciate thoughts on each of these issues as policymakers. we look to the intelligence community to provide timely and accurate information about the nature of the threats we face, intentions of our adversaries, and the effect of certain actions we can take. the nature of the increasing threats in the defense budgets and intelligence of the intentions of global actors becomes more paramount. i want to thank director clapper and general for testifying today. i look for to your assessment of the nature and scope of these who are -- of the threat we face and which of these issues concern you the most. senator reid. >> thank you. let me join you in welcoming our witnesses. as they know very well, we face an alarming number of complex and very national security challenges for many corners of the globe. our witnesses views insistence of these challenges critical to the work of the committee. i traveled -- who are courageously ser

russia's aggression in ukraine, extremists nationstates widespread refugee refugee crisis, the collapse of libya and yemen and ebola and the pandemic crisis. domestically the fracture is political order make tough choices on defense difficult raising the risk of the ongoing sequester and misalignment of us strategy with resources and investment. yesterday a knew secretary of defense took the oath of office and is now at his desk at the pentagon. he inherits an inbox filled with some of the most complicated challenges and not much of a honeymoon. as this debate on all of these issues heats up we are glad hear at the center of american progress to welcome the former secretary of defense for a wide ranging discussion on the future of american defense and how we manage difficult politics at home to global areas of crisis to juggling long-term strategic priorities and making smart investments. the conversation we will offer insight into the way forward for america's national security during these turbulent days. now, a couple of things and a little bit longer introduction on secretary:. firs

in addition in addition to these traditional challenges that nationstates effaced for many years thenited states now faces new 21st-century threats. the years we have devoted significant attention the complex challenges. the attack on the sony corporation of america was a watershed event in many, many respects and should stimulate and must stimulate critical thinking. this attack demonstrates that relatively small and weak rogue nations could reach across the ocean because extensive disruption of us-based economic targets and succeed in suppressing freedom of expression through cyber race. the real and manifest advantages that enable military superior nations to stray successfully against their homeland are a new and worrisome faith factor for national security requires not only the attention of the department of defense but the attention of the united states congress. now, all of these issues i i have talked about our external, but they're are local issues. and, senator mccain pointed out probably the most significant the budgetary programmatic challenges that are forced upon us by

maguire, as you know numerous reports have linked nationstate actors to cyberattacks. some of the same countries implicated in these reports may require u.s. i.t. companies to turn over intellectual property including operating software, source code, in exchange for market access. are you concerned that such information, in the hands of what we could call and irresponsible after, could pose additional security risks? >> thank you for the question. we are concerned about having to turn over any of our intellectual property to any country. we believe that is an infringement on our ownership of intellectual property that we have clearly spent extensive resources to develop. and that we should be allowed to protect it accordingly. certainly, if it is passed to a third-party or second party, then it does expose us to potential vulnerabilities. in short, we believe that we should not have to share intellectual property. >> that there are instances, i believe, where companies are being pressured by foreign governments to share that property? do you know how prevalent that is?

the vast majority of espionage issues will be done by employees, rogue nationstates, and candidly, organized crime. we are going to try to transition to a security company. today, the people in this room have 70 security companies in their environment. that means you have none. the bad guys while to get around. you take a problem and say how do you solve it? there are no backdoors that we are aware of. we find any government in any customer's network, we give them up immediately. it doesn't matter if it's china, u.s., or europe. >> germany has been vocal about u.s. interests innovating german >> germany has been particularly vocal about u.s. interests invading german space for lack of a period of time term -- lack of a better term. what do you tell miss merkel? >> if you share what you have conversations with any government leader, you don't have them very long. three american presidents reminded me of that one. >> generically speaking. >> i think the first thing you say is, if you're not part of this technology transition, you're going to be left behind. the second thing is, we can bring th

in the department of defense it is an issue of great concern as we watch nationstates penetrate our key defensive contractors and steel enabling technologies giving us operational advantages as a military. jim sciutto: we have a cyber audience, and i want to go to them and give everyone a fair amount of time. if i can touch on a couple of topics outside of cyber, and related to the personal patriot act. i want to set aside the privacy concerns. which, as you know, are severe for some quarters. admiral rogers: and i would comment they are very legitimate press as a nation. how will we strike the requirement for security and acknowledge our rights as citizens is foundational to our structure as a nation? it goes to who we are and what we are. jim sciutto: do you think that the metadata collection, did they get that balance right? admiral rogers: i think it generates value for the nation. i honestly believe that. is it a silver bullet that in and of itself guarantees that there will never be another 9/11 ? or there will not be a successful terrorist attack? i would say no. i would say no,

the militias we empowered were able to effect state capture over nationstate institutions and functions that had to be real built from the ground up because of the civil war from 1992 to 1996 because of the dismantlement of those institutions under the taliban. those militias worked into organized crime networks, criminalized a tradition networks him to pursue criminal agendas and political agendas to consolidate power in advance of a post-u.s. afghanistan. the activities they engaged in were hollowing out institutions we were trying to build. institutions are critical two afghanistan to regenerate. so i think a lesson from afghanistan is that war is an extension of politics. you have to conduct operations in a way to a congress political objectives and consolidate those gains. iraq is not doing enough to allay the concerns of the minority populations and actually doing thing that exacerbated the fears of those communities and set conditions for the evolution of that conflict from a decentralized localized hybrid insurgency into a large-scale communal conflict. and disaster. i think the

it relates to the breakdown of the nationstates. i don't have a solution. i've read articles about whatever the 1915 kind of breakout of the middle east and how that the law is a viable deal. i like to know what the alternative is before which is kind of discord nation-state status in significant important part of the world to be honest with you. >> what i meant to say is isis at least allows for its barbaric acts, you defined them as you did, boko haram and the others throughout, you know, whether it be africa or maybe less so but it seems to be a phenomenon that is taking place inside of states don't honor the sovereignty of the states within which they reside. how do you establish a dialogue with such a phenomenon? >> let's go to iraq. there were mistakes made in iraq for sure using the intelligence capability everybody embraced about weapons of mass destruction was not turns out not to be accurate. not creating and if i but of security after the successful taking out of saddam hussein was a mistake because iraqis wanted security, you know more than anyt

any nationstate that offers a safe haven to the enemies must be given one choice, to eliminate them or be prepared for those contributing partners involved in this endeavor to do so. we do not -- we do need we do need to recognize that there are nations that lack the capability to defeat this threat and will likely require help to do so in spite of their own internationally recognized boundaries. we must be prepared to assist those nations. third, we must decisively confront the state and nonstate supporters and enablers of the violent islamist ideology and compel them to end their support to our enemies would be prepared to remove their capacity to do so. many of these are currently considered partners of the united states. this must change. if our so-called partners do not act in accordance internationally accepted norms and behaviors or international law, the united states must be prepared to cut off were severely curtail economic and military and diplomatic ties. we cannot be seen as being hypocritical to those we are partnering with to defeat radical islam. finally, in pursuit of

we tend to work within borders and nationstates but we tend to work in fundamentals of regional actorswe tend to work in fundamentals of the theory that action reaction, rational actors daydreaming i punch you you punch me back. or i put you, you get mad and just about the anything out of those two spheres, why did you not punch me that? we get lost in our own feces. while trying to do good thing but i think what both authors have pointed out is particularly phil is driving down of the shia line of block charts is quite obligated, how do you maneuver? i would put out to the crowd today that it's not new. so what phil is pointed out is not new but we have seen these kind of demarcate -- demarcations in the lebanese civil war. we have seen the ministry before. i was in syria in 1982. they asked what i was doing the? i was backpacking, and, of course, they never believe me. never mind. you get to see these splits. there's a lot of personnel involved, a lot of personal quest for power, a lot of personal interest. at the end of the day who knows what actors do what they do? 2008 winners in

we are not fighting a nationstate here. as a former marine, i know. we are not fighting countries. we are fighting a war against terrorists. this is a global war. this war that this president has engaged in is unprecedented in human history. you can name: no country that -- you can name no country that has ever entered into military action like this. the job of a terrorist is to bring horror to you, to terrorize you. there has never been a war like this in our human history. host: michael, you say you are a marine. did you serve in iraq or afghanistan? caller: i served in afghanistan for -- in 1970 nine. i served in the united states marine corps in the fleet marine force from 1979-1986. i've never seen a war like this before where you are fighting terrorists that have no home country, no borders. they are technologically sound now. they know the internet tweeting, and everything else just like everybody else. the difference with this terrorism is, this is what bush was talking about. but bush made two mistakes. he went to matt -- went to afghanistan where i was in the tora bora mo