i don't see an economic rationale for nato mean i don't see nato being so essential in the u.s. ministry of defense industry leader in the finance industry selling its items are across the world not not least because i'm being among the best customers of the us. defense champions are governments which are not within nato so i wouldn't say i wouldn't see that element as being so so critical while i still see the political elements the bogen between europeans who wants to europe the united states remain committed to their security and the united states ones european stream are no longer are not like if i could jump in and ask you could if i could jump in and ask you i mean they want washington because they want the american taxpayer to pay for it because the united states pays the vast majority of the bill for nato so this is free riding that's what they want do you know that they don't want they're not the security risk is really an evolution is they want someone else in times of austerity particularly now let the american taxpayer pick it up the american defense industries would

must be new credit must be part of nato you know there's a lot of criticism of nato is that either it expands or it ceases to exist how do you react to that characterization i wouldn't see the tradeoff whether it expands or seizes to exist actually i think it can keep on. going if it does not think it can save loose steps like like offering again to ukraine or even georgia the prospect of becoming a member. would like to pick up on what martin was saying i mean it's true nato has no single pose any longer as it used to have during the cold war of course it has now i mean it has been suffering a sort of crisis away don't it for twenty years and even more now but i said think that nato is even though it now it is more so. of a car is still relies on a very strong again i mean. all eyes have different objectives however they trade off their security interests in the alliance and what they get in return is still is today at fund for instance the minions the european union so there's more countries for instance a nice europe they still feel treffen by russia so u.s. commitment to security

what would you like to see from nato?would like to see nato focus a little bit on getting back to basics. there is a degree to which the extensive crisis management operations was carried out. there have been likes lost this has created a sense of fatigue a sense that these things can't be afforded. it has led to cuts in defense budgets with together with financial crisis and the eurozone crisis have made it difficult for nato to sustain what it is currently doing. >> leave it there. before would wrap you, a few other keyents, on monday, the supreme court will here arguments in a case challenging the epa's authority to regulate greenhouse gases. tuesday, oscar voting closes. on thursday, the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons issues a probation report on efforts to destroy syria's chemical weapons. he has been labeled a global terrorist by the united states. a yemeni cleric said america is spreading the terror. mohammed voll came face to face with the man. >> looking into the eyes of a man the u.s. consi

this is no question there's a vision of nato. yes even different insurance in the vest not all of their armor and because the role of the german government and they're in transplant is much more cautious and bold. more. east of europe so there are different interests but i think the rest is looking for yours in the historical china. because now to create this deep deep in the economic situation in ukraine is horrid bad and you know there are the nationalists. who want the come to go to the west so they are playing with our child but i have not sure when that will happen i hope that train people who are going to come and being more independent i think the chance of rain is to be between east and west and to be something like a bridge between east and west and to look that they can the best from both sides just just briefly what you make of the comments from the likes of john kerry who's mourning russia about any military intervention in ukraine what you think the ukrainian people make of this rhetorical and somewhat safe inflammat

ukraine's trying to nato he continued cooperation with nato in fact he was very pro european. i would remind you that he did not cancel the so-called association agreement with the he asked to postpone it for financial reasons now we know. and solve all your government in kiev for their. government funds already so because of these poor very material financial reasons you asked to perform the signing of the treaty and that was enough to put the e.u. in reach so basically i think. the west has been unable to cooperate with such a broad european president as you know which was it was corrupt it was ineffective but he was pro european how is that we're going to cooperate with other countries in eastern europe which may be which may be governed by less for european leaders than he would be an approach. how the ukrainian people going to perceive statements from a western military officials that have nothing to do with economics actually. well actually i think they're the cause of the in your story in kiev for is it's going to take i mean canceling this war which gave russian and ot

in the lead up to the two thousand and twelve nato protests chicago police raided an apartment in the neighborhood of bridgeport eleven people were arrested six eventually released but a trio was singled out and they were charged with planning a terrorist attack to disrupt the nato summit the trio consisting of brett better lead jared chase and brian church have been quite the nato three and the evidence presented against them was collected by undercover cops who infiltrated the group now since their arrest almost two years ago the nato three have been behind bars and are currently facing forty year sentences each this week jurors attended the final day of evidence in the trial of the nato three but the precedent resulting from the outcome of the trial is yet to be seen earlier i spoke to firedoglake journalist kevin castello who's been reporting on the trial for us as a breakdown of what exactly happened in the courtroom yesterday as well as the undercover police's testimony and importantly we learned the prosecutors do not have any evidence beyond. the fact that these three men were

would -- would tell the ukranian president to assist, insist of some nato support, to call on nato'srt. this is what you would tell the acting prime minister there. and, nato would respond positively and say, in the interest of stability, nato is deploying a couple of diplomats to kiev. now, i don't think that's going to happen, i think that's too assertive. i don't think nato is ready to go there yet, but that's -- that would be the counterplay. >> all right. general, thank you so much for your incites. appreciate it. general wesley clark joining us to on the the fast line. all right, so the general, he knows what he's talking about, he basically said u.s. involvement by itself or through nato, is almost off the table. >> the relative strength of the bond market, it's hung in there. a couple of weeks ago, guy, the s&p is going to make new highs on friday, i would say 102 or 103 the tlt. yields are seemingly wanting to go lower. to me, there's a huge disconnect between the broader market and the bond market. >> okay, we'll take a quick break, we'll have more on the situation as well

then you also have nato. again, the defense ministers of all 28 countries were meeting, and there was no solid statement out of there about what they would do if russia moved troops into ukraine. >> thank you so much from the pentagon. thank you, jennifer. we'll bring it back out here. bob, you were getting very worked up. >> my only point about what jennifer said about the nato mibs meeting. nato has no responsibility to the ukraine. the north atlantic treaty was put together to protect the member states. they're not a member state. nato is not involved in this. the u.s. could be involved if they want to. if they want to get involved militarily, i don't think they do. >> don't you think that's what she was talking about? >> no, nato has no right. >> don't you think a goal of putin was to take nato and disarming nuclear defense, that was a major goal of putin, and guess what, he got it. >> one of the reasons putin is doing this is the ukraine has made it clear, at least for the oppositions now in power, that

policy in general that of course is moving a nato at least de facto right to the center. of ukraine so the military component that was not discussed in western media commentary is part of this whole agreement mark one hundred years ago was the start of the first world war and i am not prone to hyperbole but you know what happens when neither side blinks. well we know and of course we still have a potential nuclear confrontation it's on it's unlikely to come to that but i think we have to be prepared for the fact that if you assume a policy of going for the drug dealer the russian state trying to disintegrate your de facto supporting the traction and other separatists hidden inside russia then the must be a risk that something on intended will happen after all in two thousand and eight georgia perhaps didn't intend to kill a dozen russian peacekeepers but it did that precipitated a real crisis who knows if their own people who may go over the edge in the ukraine and do something to attack russian service minutes past the poll for instance which could begin to spiral out of

a misunderstanding he later told a meeting of the nato ukraine commission which is presently having a get together in brussels that the latest developments in the crimea were dangerous and irresponsible he did go on to also call on kiev authorities to leave the country forward in what he called an inclusive political process the polish foreign minister also short of showed alarm over the developments in that part of ukraine referring to the seizure of government buildings as a quote very dangerous game and of course the new german defense minister also weighing in at her very first nato summit let's take a listen to what she had to say. what's the situation in the ukraine particularly in crimea fills us with great concern it is of the utmost importance that we prevent a breakup of the ukraine and that special forces in the country are strengthened. so nato defense ministers as you heard there unified and they are alarmed over the developments now as you heard from my colleague going off the crimean was of course part of russia until nine hundred fifty four and remains home to russia

now look somehow in some way to absorb ukraine what is nato's gambit. to cross not nato i'm joined by my guests martin mccauley in london he's a specialist on international affairs at the university of london also in london we have jonathan steele he is an international affairs commentator for the guardian and in washington we cross to ricardo all caro he is a visiting fellow at the center for the u.s. and europe at the brookings institution all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage you jonathan if i go to you first the cold war has been over for over two decades we still have this alliance in existence and there are many people that are very critical that will continue to expand and some will even go as far to say this is maybe the center of the problems going on in ukraine is that brussels is very interested in absorbing even further countries to the east this time ukraine. well i'm certainly of the school that thinks that nato should have disbanded at the end of the cold war i

conflict could not have been made by the white house and pentagon alone. >> reporter: in afghanistan nato u.s. forces may be planning to leave by the engineer -- en of the year, but for civilians it's still a very dangerous place. two contractors were killed in a kabul suicide bombing on monday. >> civilian casualties in afghanistan have increased by 14% in 2013. >> reporter: taliban insurgeons and other militants are stepping up attacks around the country, seeking to shake confidence in the government before april's elections. ♪ >>> joining us now to discuss aid to afghanistan as it transitions away from a war economy, thanks for being us. >> thank you for having me. >> the brood rubrics, food and farming, trade and taxation, education. they sound great, but try to give us an idea of the specific kind of projects that this money guys. >> yeah, we have made a lot of gains, and the goal is to cement those gains. these programs are focusing on what we consider to be one of the necessary prerequisites for success. and that's sustainable economic growth. the afghans won't be able to sustain e

nato could send ambassadors, personnel to kiev. nato could send a commission in.y could take strong measures that would be deterrent in nature without puts troops on the ground. and this would send a strong signal to putin. >> that would be a dramatic escalation, though, of this crisis if nato started to get directly involved in ukraine, wouldn't it, general? >> under partnership for peace, nations that are members of partnership for peace are allowed to petition nato. it's up to nato to accept that petition. but this is a question of whether nato can act strongly at the early stage to head off a crisis or whether we'd like to see it unfold. the consequences of this if it unfolds would be quite significant. what's going to happen, this is phase one. phase two will be lots of disorder in ukraine and then spreading of these russian paramilitary troops to seize key objectives throughout ukraine and then the president -- the deposed president of ukraine will ask for russian assistance to maintain order, then he'll come back in and take charge. this will have a huge im

quote escalate tension or create a misunderstanding he told a meeting of the nato ukraine commission in brussels the latest developments in the crimea were quote dangerous and irresponsible also raising the alarm of the new german defense minister now she weighed in at her very first nato summit in brussels let's take a quick listen the situation in the ukraine particularly in crimea fills us with great concern it is of the utmost importance that we prevent a breakup of the ukraine and that special forces in the country are strengthened. so lot of concern about whether ukraine remains in one piece or not the russian foreign ministry meanwhile issuing a statement in response to all this saying that the nato defense ministers were sending a quote wrong signal in their statements urging all sides to refrain from making what moscow referred to as provocative statements this alarm not just coming from the nato ministers but reflected in the western press as well the news has certainly made front page headlines with a lot of speculation that moscow's decision to hold military drills is lin

now looks somehow in some way to absorb ukraine what is nato's gambit.

nato in and thirdly, a u.n. mandate for the peace keeping operation and then nato would be willing to play a role. >> those are big if's and he's onlt trusting the israeli arm and not supporting a third party force. u.s. is israel's most important ally and why not trust a force led by the united states? >> this is a starting point for negotiations. we know nothing is easy or simple in israeli and palestine negotiations. remember that the u.s. and israel have a long history of working together in peace keeping operations in this part of the world. since the camp david accord. i think if they can work together in that context they could in this context as well. >> why makeing this suggestion in the first place, he's gone pretty far, as far as saying that the gaza and the west bank could be demilitarized and relying on nato providing the security indefinitely. >> i think again this is a starting point for the negotiations and posturing on both sides and the west won't sign up for indefinite peace keeping there, but

well absolutely i mean now we have the nato general secretary. making more and more comments in this regard again favoring the protesters of course the ukraine is is a geo political prize par excellence if you are moving east toward russia and obviously nato has been moving east since the end of the cold war more than twenty years ago the berlin wall since its fall and instead of both the war warsaw pact and nato being this bad then we have nato move eastward and everyone else trying to punish also sort of knowledge were received here almost you know i'm sorry sort of jump in here we have i don't know my dental issues a lot with the audio coming through your microphone now i'm going to have to cut this off just for a moment i do apologize we'll reestablish the connection here and get back to you soon as possible i do apologize for this backing him up. for the meantime here in our international to apologize for that coming up in just a moment here a shoplifting epidemic. sometimes i let people in the shop lift a special for their kids what would t

in the lead up to the two thousand and twelve nato protests chicago police raided an apartment in the neighborhood of bridgeport eleven people were arrested six eventually released but a trio was singled out and they were charged with planning a terrorist attack to the strop the nato summit the trio consisting of brett better lead jared chase and brian church have been quite the nato three and the evidence presented against them was collected by undercover cops who infiltrated the group now since their arrest almost two years ago the nato three have been behind bars and are currently facing forty years sentences each this week jurors attended the final day of evidence in the trial of the nato three but the precedent resulting from the out.

>> i think so, i think nato has said it would be interested in helping if three conditions were met.ace agreement between the parties, they would have to invite nato in, and if those conditions are met then i think nato would be able -- would be at least able to provide a role and would be willing as well. >> those are big ifs. benjamin netanyahu has said he would only trust the israeli army to provide the security. not another force. the u.s. its most important ally. why wouldn't he trust a force led by the united states? >> bear in mind, this is the starting point for negotiation. nothing is easy or simple in israeli-palestinian negotiations. this shouldn't be either. the u.s. and israel have a long history of working together in peace keeping operations in this part of the world. for example in the sinai peninsula, there have been thousands of peace keepers in the sinai including hundreds of americans for the last 30 years hoping to implement that agreement. so i think if the u.s. and israel can work together in that context i think there's reason to believe they can work together

you mentioned i was in nato and one of the two councils we had in nato in 2006 was the nato ukraine council and russia council, and they were there friends. we brought in most of the former soviet block countries and there was no question that the current president in russia is not a fan of that. as a matter fact, we're treated to to his view of the world in since 19 45. , and it certainly is different history than you and i would recall. >> what is his vew? >> nato is the evil incarnate, the world would be better off if it was still a bi-polar world and goes downhill from that. >> the thing he hated the most is the expansion of nato on his board. >> he took that very personal. >> what we have here though, i mean clearly a government that's some question about how corrupt they might be from previous experiences as well as this. >> sure. >> a question of a decision they had to make with respect to a lot of their citizens wanting them to have a relationship with the european union and all that. and then at the same time, president putin wanting them to have a close relationship with russia an

to join nato if russia was indeed to lose that naval base in sevastopol i think that's would sooner or later provoke a very strong reaction from russia and probably that's reaction would also be negative it in i understand that having ukraine under the western umbrella is very valuable for many western countries it's a strategic gain but i wonder if it really worth spoiling completely spoiling relations with russia i don't think it would spoil relations with russia because russia needs to have a good business like relationship with the west including the united states but there's an important thing you that we need to point out you know when i was in ukraine the russian position was they had no objection if ukraine joined the e.u. they did have an objection of russia join nato so the russian position has changed and hardened in the past year or so and that's unfortunate while i'm back there hard to have to say that no one as of yet has offered ukraine the e.u. membership and i don't think it's going to happen that's interesting i agree future but i think we have to leave it here i real

they did have an objection of russia join nato so the russian position has changed in horn in the past year or so and that's unfortunate well ambassador harsh to have to say that no one as of yet has all for ukraine the e.u. membership and i don't think it's going to happen that's kristie i agree future but i think we have to leave it here i really appreciate your being on the program thank you to our viewers please keep the conversation going on our twitter you tube and facebook pages and hope to see you again. same place same time here on worlds apart. this is something you adjust your mental tuning fellow children of the industrial revolution we come face but nobody seems to be running out of steam as well as the oil coal gas water it's all true. lisa but this energy crisis suggests yes we have a recession obama is wise and more such does not supply just a futuristic stick you know next old pipeline stripper sites to. dramas that can't be ignored to. stories others to a few snowdrifts. faces changing the world lights now. so picture of today's news no longer from around the globe. l

conference takes place and which would probably clarify what his next steps will be and currently nato spin military drills being staged by russia and the alliance is concerned that the maneuvers may be sending the wrong message with ukraine crumbling on russia's doorstep of the story here to wattis lucie county. they don't offense ministers expressing a lot of concern over ukraine as well as their perception of the kremlin's response the nato secretary general rasmussen called on russia not to do anything that would quote escalate tension or create a misunderstanding he told a meeting of the nato ukraine commission in brussels the latest developments in the crimea were quote dangerous and irresponsible also raising the alarm of the new german defense minister now she weighed in at her very first nato summit in brussels let's take a quick listen the situation in the ukraine particularly in crimea fills us with great concern it is of the utmost importance that we prevent a breakup of the ukraine and that special forces in the country are strengthened. so lot of concern about whether ukr

the new german defense minister now she waited at her very first nato summit in brussels. take a quick lesson. the situation in the ukraine were taken in the ukrainian fills us with great concern. it is of the utmost importance that we prevent the breakup of the ukraine and special forces in the country are strengthened so was concern about da whether ukraine remains in one piece are not the russian foreign ministry meanwhile issuing a statement in response all this saying that the nato defense ministers were sending equal to the wrong signal in their statements urging all sides to refrain from making what moscow referred to as provocative statements. this alarm not just coming from the nato ministers but reflected in the western press as well the news has certainly made front page headlines when a lot of speculation that moscow's decision to hold military drills is linked somehow to be addressed. that notion which the russian defense minister sergei should build disputed that saying that the emergency military drills were routine and largely unrelated to the developments

they did have an objection of russia join nato so the russian position has changed in horn in the past year or so and that's unfortunate well ambassador harsh to have to say that no one as of yet has all for ukraine the e.u. membership and i don't think it's going to happen that's kristie i agree future but i think we have to leave it here i really appreciate your being on the program thank you to our viewers please keep the conversation going on our twitter you tube and facebook pages and hope to see you again. same place same time here on the world cup my. silence on. the rules rights. to the. paying of the young girls camel for the future hunger. between two and three hundred million guns united states so you can act like they're not here and keep kids away from them. the plaza sound is a large you know i mean this teaches them a lot of for us both ability to simply come to pay through the eyes of children if we can't do it for our children for our future what is the country will smooth. really be you as you don't know if you don't play the chorus responds to really. i don't know if

so nato defense ministers as you heard their unified in their alarm over the developments now as you heard from a colleague either to stop the crimea was of course part of russia until nineteen fifty four remains home to russia's black sea fleet ukraine itself of course had been caught between russia and the west since the dissolution of the soviet union now back in nineteen eighty one. in nineteen ninety seven. we did see me go high cents to four to set up a special joint commission on with ukraine to oversee relief chance of possibly paving the way forward for membership of a leader in two thousand. there was an agreement that kiev could eventually be considered for nato membership but that the band put to rest since all the questions now about whether ukraine will effectively be desert the issue with the change in power and the people that we've seen over in the country. t o. the second line from the bad in nbc many we've seen over in the country. t o. the second line from the bad in nbc many thanks indeed bicycles here on the ironman surf on pace to offer financial support. sorry

into right up to china's borders and have nato in africa nato in latin america that it is likely to come into conflict with other powers now. i think that there is a concern about danger also of that kind of miscalculation here is the united states for it to today flagrantly interfering along with the european union and the to work out of joint at the hips in the internal affairs of ukraine now ukraine is so close to russia i mean geographically historically culturally in every possible way and yet the. u.s. and e.u. politicians go there and nakedly whip up a new russian sentiment now this is an amazingly dangerous policy to undertake and this is all part of a much wider policy which has been going on for some years ever since the so-called orange revolution or pushing ukraine into nato now i was sort of for that is a very serious danger that this is a situation that could escalate into a conflict with russia that along with and the almost hysterical anti russian propaganda that you come across in the western media you know it's these are this is these are the kind of things that do