us nato allies. so if you take out the us from the from the numbers, the rest of nato spend 20% more, so we can do this, but it's not nearly enough when you look at the capability targeting process and when you then from there starts to see the emerging gaps. it has to be much and much more than this famous 2%. it will be more than 3% at least. so here he's right. and the good thing, of course, is when we in the rest of nato spend more that there will be more of a burden sharing with what the us is doing because the us itself is now on about 3.3%, 3.4%, 3.5%, depending on which year and how you calculate it. so that burden shift is necessary. but to your concrete question, i think pete hegseth was very clear in stuttgart. >> let's see. here, a woman in the 2nd row. >> yuri. i wanted to ask you about, uh, like yesterday nato already did what putin wanted, dropped off the idea of ukrainian membership and alliance in the foreseeable future. if this is how nato will make putin to start the talking proces

into nato. any defense minister or secretary of defense who tells you they don't want more would be lying to you. i understand that. ultimately we have on our -- we have our own budgetary considerations to be had. i don't think an unwillingness of nato allies to invest in their own defense spending can be dismissed away by trying to point at the $900 billion that america has invested around the globe saying it's not enough. so ultimately we are very much committed to the nato alliance and to our allies, but without burden sharing, without creating the right set of incentives for european countries to invest, then we would be forced to attempt to be everywhere for everybody always time -- all the time which in a world of fiscal restraints is again, get back to that record reality, just not reality. so yes, we will continue to spend robustly, our expectation of our friends, and we say this in solidarity, is you have to spend more. on your defense for your country on that continent. understanding t

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either we are in nato or nato is in us. we are ready for any framework to start putting so despite the fact that we've heard from the us, defense secretary pete's headsets, that essentially there would be no going back to pre 2014 ford is fully ukraine. that russia would essentially keep the territories that voted to join it over the last few years as well as ukraine. i'm the, the us didn't see the future of ukraine being a native of loading means. let's see. continuing to be adamant that that's not the case. and he wants his country to regain the territory and he wants his country to be part of the nato. and of course the european union. so interesting to see the the big divergence for those 2 individuals, particularly ahead of that meeting with us as mens take place over the next few days. now we've also been hearing from german sean sla. oh, look, schultz who has been talking about the situation here and again talking about the need to continue supporting new crate. the item is that we need a reform of the debt break in

so he was saying, well, then that's build another kind of nato within europe. what he's saying is that the european union, or european countries need to cooperate a lot most strongly need to build their own security. that he was talking about a european army in distinction from an army composed of an a to and then the states . so you appear in ami a european come on a european foreign policy and was in this structure within the european union. and within this europe, an army, ukraine would be a member and would be, he said, a decisive member because of it's the size of it's a, i mean, the experience, it hasn't war. and so, so he's trying to, in a sense, um, find security for ukraine within the european structure composed of a european army that doesn't exist at the moment. and so he's trying to push a 0 pin neighbors to skilled an army of the 2 ad you're trying to, that's to become a member of your current european union and so on. and then we have to say, at the same time on the part of russia, russia is a poor teens. concern of a many, many years has been the

how can nato members get involved whether there's an office. where does it go from here? >> i think that what has happened at the last that nato sum mitts have been important talking about china and the threat threaten and the fact that doesn't stay in the indo-pacific, it playing greats --it might go great. one of the things i say why ukraine matters to us is because oured a stairs are looking at what we do in ukraine, with we will stand by our allies and if we are not going to stand by our allies in ukraine will we in taiwan. if nato is attacked we are fortune that the ukrainians are courageous and willing to fight for their countries because terror fighting on behalf of a lot of us. i don't want to see my grandsons go to fight in ukraine or other parts of the world because we didn't take a stand now to defend our ally when we said we were going to. >> all right. we will, i think that is all the time that we have for today. i really -- >> i told tom i didn't mean it filibuster him. >> you want to jump in. >> i hope we can agree the world is very small now and i will --

we were paying almost 100% of nato _ like nato.taken advantage of the -00d everybody was taken advantage of the good old _ everybody was taken advantage of the good old united — everybody was taken advantage of the good old united - but— everybody was taken advantage of the good old united - but not- everybody was taken advantage of the good old united - but not any. so now, if ou m more. so now, if you speak to the secretary—general— more. so now, if you speak to the secretary—general of _ more. so now, if you speak to the secretary—general of nato, - more. so now, if you speak to the secretary—general of nato, it was| nice when he was here, two a-o, he said 7 a-o, he said what - ago, he said what trumpl 7 ago, he said what trump did weeks ago, he said what trump did was amazing, — weeks ago, he said what trump did was amazing, he _ weeks ago, he said what trump did was amazing, he got _ weeks ago, he said what trump did was amazing, he got everybody- and to that; base to pay, and to do that, you have to and biden— pay, and to do

ukraine, nato and the u.s. military presence in europe.his is a half hour. >> good morning, everyone. welcome to the press conference. we have the minister of national defense wladyslaw kosiniak-kamysz and secretary of defense from united states pete hegseth. deputy prime minister, please take the floor. >> good morning. it is a great moment. it is a great moment for myself, for my wife. we are hosting the secretary of defense from the united states and his wife. welcome. thank you for choosing poland of the first venue of your visit. it is a testimony to our partnership and our friendship and shared strategy of security for the united states, poland, europe and the whole world. it is a great duty, a great honor for myself to house secretary pete hegseth today and talk abo the most -- the most important challenges. thank you for a very good discussion. we had a bilateral meeting with delegations to talk about our alliance. polish american alliance has never been as strong as it is today. we will do everything possible to make it stronger o

either we are a nato or nato is in us. we are ready for any framework to start putting those automated zaleski does actually have a meeting with the vice president of the us. this is say, the vault. so we know the last time that they met, they didn't particularly seats i to i, j. d valves has been a massive critic of ukraine's position in this war. so it'll be interesting to see what the full life is from. of that me things we also know ukraine has been asked to give up. it's mineral resources to essentially pay back the united states. so all the money is funded with over the last few years. now there's also being reaction in europe to uh, the over chose coming out from donald trump, j. d von san marco rubio and others. basically you are paying lead is a little bit scad that separately could be that it's the us and russia deciding the feature of the ukraine war. a new roof as well as ukraine is being completely slide line. and i can tell you the not happy hi, tim, this is the we need a reform of the debt break in order to

without nato membership. that's not gonna fly. it has me bilateral security agreements with all of the allies in nato, which of course don't add up to article 5, the guarantee. but i think you crane has the extensive security guarantees. it's going to be able to get for the moment bilaterally, with a war raging on its territory. yeah, this is not the place we thought we would be 3 years ago when this war was about to begin, and that's for sure. the w as terry schultz in brussels tonight, terry is always think or whether they like it or not, you creating and face a future that will be determined in part by the negotiating strategy of us president donald trump. ukrainian president zalinski also knows who he's dealing with and that goes for truck and for food today, zalinski pushed back voicing concern about being sidelined by the 2 leaders, a little initial set. and it's important that everything does not go according to parents' plan, in which he wants to do everything to make his negotiations bilateral, reduc

the press said, president, trump is abandoning nato, just turning his back on our nato allies. that's what, that's what the headlines read. in 20172018. what actually happened? that tough, tough conversation created even more investment to the point where now almost every nato countries meeting the 2 percent goal that was said to be breach us when he 1st said it. now europe and countries are stepping up and president, trump continues to ring the alarm bell, but even more investment is required considering where we are. so suggestions of abandonment, otherwise continue to be disingenuous. and we are, we're proud to be part of this alliance in standby. so i'll take a couple more. sure. why don't we take one from the us outlet one from an international outlet with us out with? pardon me, sir. what we're going to take from us is logan radner from news max please. you talked about expanding the defense industrial base and also expedite in foreign military sales. can you expand on that a little bit and how important that is to nato? well, one of the, yeah, self evident the conclusion

part of nato, show_ focus on the european part of nato, show what — focus on the european part of naton_ because it is not fair and it is common sense to try to get to common sense to try to really get to this and _ common sense to try to really get to this and we — common sense to try to really get to this and we have to ramp up spending and yes, _ this and we have to ramp up spending and yes, a _ this and we have to ramp up spending and yes, a from the us and yes, a commitment from the u, and yes, a commitment from the us an expectation and think but also an expectation and i think that is_ but also an expectation and i think that is fain — but also an expectation and i think that is fair. t, ~ but also an expectation and i think that is fair-— g s .joining us here i 99.3; 5: 5:5,- — fiiléffzjii 7§ .joining us here in | 7pretty optimistic tone from you see, pretty optimistic tone from secretary—general and the pigs you see, pretty optimistic tone from be ecretary—general and the pigs you see, pretty optimistic tone from be worked —general and the pigs you see, pretty optimistic tone f

to nato seems that increases. so because we need, you need to know we should be cautious in my opinion as we go forward. but this may be a recognition of reality. us efforts to really bring down russia did not succeed and new opportunities for instead for russia opened up in other trade relations even as they cancelled. we'll see. you find it just, you know, famous statement. he was going to turn the russian rouble into rubble in 2 weeks time. well, that's not what happened. so they face a new reality. i suppose the it mix the conversation kick started though, doesn't that it? like what he said about getting rush it back in the g 7 saying that it's it's the g 8. is that a realistic possibility in the near future? well i, i doubt it. the purpose of the g 7 was as a weapon against russia and china. it was a big imperialist countries. russia was part of it for a time, but they realized really, they were like the main course of a group of the, the empires. and so, you know, relations were cut, the pressure was thrown

it doesn't have to be nato. it could be -- [talking simultaneously] -- or whatever. >> president trump said yesterday a country in russia's position could not allow ukraine to join nato. should russia have a veto on who is and is not in nato? sen. wicker: of course not. >> so roger wicker does not want russia back in the g-8. does not want to have russia holding a veto over who is or is not in nato. i assume mr. rogers:erk -- i assume roger wicker with a not want a state visit of putin either? sen. wicker: i would not feel good about that. >> all right. what is your perspective on process and substance -- please. sen. wicker: let me make this point. nato is not an aggressive force against russia. that is totally soviet-style propaganda. and for anyone to believe that, anyone on the talk shows or anyone on european media to say that is absolutely just out of touch. >> i have to say this. president trump said this week that russia invaded ukraine because of nato enlargement. sen. wicker: well, that's -- i think th

there is no reason for nato membership. the fact that at this point really the best way to end of war is just end what is going on. i support president trump's strategy. they need to start giving us back somewhere earth metals. all that money we gave to ukraine. host: sid, this is what is -- this is what sid was talking about with rare earth metals. this is not coming up for me. we will get that for you. let's hear again from president trump talking about his conversation with russian president putin about the cease-fire. [video] >> we talked about the possibility -- i mentioned the cease-fire to stop the killing. i think we will end up getting a cease-fire in the not-too-distant future. >> do you expect ukraine -- do you view ukraine is an equal member of the peace process? >> interesting question. they have to make peace. there people are being killed. they have to make peace. i said that was not a good war to go into. they have to make peace. that is what i think. host: that was the president yesterday. we are taking you

of course, ukraine is not in nato. and he said that there are no plans to put ukraine in nato.nd, of course, russia still controls about 20% of ukraine and hegseth says it's unrealistic to get those borders back to pre2024 borders. now, hegseth not the only senior member of the trump administration in europe as you mentioned, ainsley, vice president vance in paris following global ai conference. now on a flight munich leading the american delegation to try to end russia's war on ukraine. yesterday president trump spoke to both the presidents of russia and ukraine and echoed what the defense secretary pete hegseth said here in brussels it was unrealistic for ukraine to retake land captured by russia and said ukraine will not be joining nato. here is trump on those phone calls. >> we had a great call. and it lasted for a long time, over an hour this morning. i also had with president zelenskyy a very good call after that. and i think we are on the way to getting peace. i think president putin wants peace. and president zelenskyy wants peace. and i want peace. i just want to see p

to join nato. a now suddenly no, that was never on off or i should just say i'm hearing reports that the cooling for like just send them to keep the kellogg appointed as the ukraine envoy by donald trump is out of the picture once corruption and reach uh allegations about him surfaced as regards his daughter and usa id. i'm going to, i'm go got to the confirmation of that yet. but certainly russell's and kia have the dictatorship in kiev. perfect. i mean, they have no, well, clearly, because this was an american proxy war on restaurant through ukraine. it lets me say is ukraine will not comply with any conditions agreed upon with all attempts participation. but to that very point, higher likely is key of to reject any possible piece fund proposed to it by the u. s. i. it's very difficult to understand what is coming from keyboards. it caught a key because it goes, we got to remember that in those major countries, particularly in your up that have tried to destroy all traces of russian culture. they

there is no reason for nato membership. the fact that at this point really the best way to end of war is just end what is going on. i support president trump's strategy. they need to start giving us back somewhere earth metals. all that money we gave to ukraine. host: sid, this is what is -- this is what sid was talking about with rare earth metals. this is not coming up for me. we will get that for you. let's hear again from president trump talking about his conversation with russian president putin about the cease-fire. [video] >> we talked about the possibility -- i mentioned the cease-fire to stop the killing. i think we will end up getting a cease-fire in the not-too-distant future. >> do you expect ukraine -- do you view ukraine is an equal member of the peace process? >> interesting question. they have to make peace. there people are being killed. they have to make peace. i said that was not a good war to go into. they have to make peace. that is what i think. host: that was the president yesterday. we are taking you

more than 30000 nato soldiers before within yugoslavia develop cancer. most what diagnosed with leukemia and brain to most according to various estimates between 10 and 18000 have died. the so called bulk and assumed continues to claim lives. but nato still denies the detriment, only thinks of depleted uranium from a. this is new car safety point of view. there is no radiological significant to or even in the or even and nothing is significant consequences. it may be in some very specific cases. for example, people very near a blaze that showed up in heat with these kind of munitions they in a z. aerosols that could be done as a result of that. there's good vehicle donation bodies, more of a health issue of a normal nature than a radiological potential christ every morning home, italian army office, carlo called kidney stones, his day with an oxygenation procedure. his blood is oxygen stopped. so he has to run it through a special device called categories. so in the balkans with the nato peacekeeping force under the un bound, he was the only pilot in his

the most obvious one, the main one is simply nato membership.t will be vetoed by certain nato members, hungry, maybe others. the question is, is there any other security guarantee to reassure the ukrainians? i see that as being very difficult. don't forget in 1994 ukraine's security was guaranteed by america, britain, russia. in the budapest memorandum. ever since that was broken, ever since ukraine was invaded by russia, they basically don't believe that anything other than nato membership could possibly protect them. and they are possibly right about that. this is going to be a big stumbling block for the trump agenda in ukraine. he has to give them some kind of security guarantee but other than nato membership, what is it? >> bill: fair question. i think a lot of this stuff is very complex. putin would argue you were threatening to pull ukraine into nato anyway and why i went into. he will argue that. >> the funny thing about that is putin's claim that nato is encroaching on his territory. if his aim in invading ukraine was to stop that happe

that is nato's article five.at irony of this is that trump, a politician who is obsessed with borders, at least the ones in this country, seems not to care much about the sanctity of foreign borders or invasions. that almost matches the tactical genius of russia, who supposedly launched this war on ukraine to counter nato. and now nato is larger than it was three years ago. there's more nato on russia's border than ever before, after finland and sweden joined, after putin invaded ukraine. joining us now, william taylor, who served as the united states ambassador to ukraine from 2006 to 2009. bill, it's been almost three years. we've been talking about this this invasion, and this was one of the small basket of reasons vladimir putin stated for starting this war, right, that that ukraine having face east and face north, face russia for all these decades, even after the collapse of the soviet union, wanted to face west, they wanted to join the eu and wanted to join nato was not going to be an immediate matter, but

we've heard that from the uk defense secretary, the nato official just now told us that nato membership is not something that can be necessarily negotiated with russia, and that for them, the position remains the same as decided in 2008, that ukraine is on a path to nato membership and has firmed up at the washington summit last year. that path is irreversible. but we did actually hear some criticism of pete hegseth comments. interestingly, coming from the second biggest donor to ukraine in dollar terms from germany. take a listen. >> ich es und das sage ich auch. >> it's regrettable. >> and i'm saying this too. >> this is. >> part of the truth. >> the trump administration has already made public. >> concessions to putin before. >> the negotiations have even begun. >> so that was sort of the clearest criticism that we've heard from nato members. others are continuing to try to argue that there actually isn't a contradiction with the nato position that texas comments talk about. you know, no nato as part of a settlement. that doesn't mean necessarily that they can't continue down the pat

yeah, sure, no, not if we are not in nato or until we are in nato. this means that we will have an opportunity to protect ourselves with exactly the kind of army that is capable of doing so. these are appropriate nato weapons and the appropriate number of soldiers . some of our, some ukrainian was. we are ready to talk about everything from the contingent into security grants from nato. this either we are in nato, for nato is in us. we are ready for any framework to start moving on. uh, well, we also been hearing from the gym insurance, so the all of shows also to king the 5 uh, the concessions he has, the 5 what's happening in ukraine and whether essentially america is going to try and uh and to go see sions directly with russia as it is basically pushing not just ukraine, but the europeans, the sidelines in may. what they see to the table, they say hi to him. listen, do we need a reform of the debt break in order to invest in our security and defense for the secondly, the bonus tag should make a decision as soon as possible, according to which the

membership in nato as part of a any negotiated settlement as well as nato troops playing any role in peace keeping. pretty clear all day president trump's position as well until he confirmed it in the oval office as the new dni tulsi gabbard was just sworn in. >> i think we're on the way to getting peace. i think president putin wants peace. and president zelenskyy wants peace. and i want peace. >> jacqui: president trump expressing optimism after long calls with russian president putin and then ukrainian president zelenskyy this morning. in the next breath trump casually indication a reversal of u.s. policy is ahead since the bush administration, the u.s. has supported ukraine's future in nato and the alliance's open door policy. the secretary of defense said today that's unrealistic in a negotiated settlement to end the war. >> i think probably that's true. they have been saying that for a long time that ukraine cannot go into nato. and -- >> -- shouting question] >> trump says no preconditions were set to begin peace talks. the kremlin readout of the call says putin again set a re

the average is, and the rest of nato and kind of the and in europe. so we have to do more last year we spend 20 percent more us natural allies. so if you take out us from different from the numbers to the rest of nature, spend 20 percent more so we can do this. but it is not nearly enough and you look at to get the benefit targeting process and that you would then from there, starts to see the emerging gaps. it has to be much and much more then, then this famous to percentage. it'll be more than 3 percent, at least. so here he's right and the good thing of course, is when we interest of nato spend more that there will be more of a bonus sharing with us just do it because the us itself is now on about 3 points. the see board for a 3.5 percent depending on which year and how you will calculate it. so that's a built in shift is necessary. but to your complete question, i think the tax that those very clear is true. oh, let's see here. and then the 2nd it's jeremy, that's cause means that actually means you an example. i wanted to ask you about uh, like y

yes, to help strengthen nato's eastern slack. and germany is finally meeting nature's to present defense spending targets. but 3 years after short, it's announced the type of vendor. it's clear that it will take more than a little spring cleaning to fix the german military's problems. just in a good call. scott is opponents researcher on the german bonus math, nato, and european defense. she says, germany has a lot more to do pertaining to rock se on into magic modernization plans on. again, a more people to serve and there is a big question more with regard to future funding and future financing of the german armed forces. germany's established parties might agree on boosting defense capabilities. further that's no one really seems to know where to get the money from. plus defend spending is a divisive issue within germany. all that affects the way germany behaves on the european level. german use is, is, is still struggling with this rule of yeah, of, of liter um, or kind of unifying force within, within europe. this whole thin

it could be nato, it could be not be nato, it could be an individual, comes just helping them any way. sure to get what's to go into that in detail. the only thing they will be doing is informing of learning they're posting. and here's the thing that i think signing chair and listening to what i'm asking to your question. if i will get you the answer in full. and i won't because i don't want to make him any wiser. he says he will give the answer in full. i'm not sure he give any answer there at all. i think that mike route the is not able to do what he wants to do. he was used to do what he was ordered to do and his position was targeted by our president for 2 days ago we left 2 days ago. mr. johan is wanted to be the chief of nato. a now is 2 days ago. the resignation of the most catastrophic president that remain. yeah. as ever, at game into effect. yes. to date as everything that's happened during this 10 days, the 10 years of rain was wrong. and strange. it was norma to reduce the he story, go to flows for the getting his book. it is the 1st time that someone resigns from a positi

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so again, this is another example of nato adapting. and more importantly, another clear sign about why they need to spend a more, whether to a piece trunk, to push off the threat of trunk with the danish intelligence service. seeing that in the next 5 years, they could talk, i lost one, any europe's competitiveness, innovation. this is long overdue outlining the letter and dried you reports. so maybe the shocked in your it needs to get their act together when it comes to defend spending. scott, sorry, briefly at the end, i mean, we still got most of the 4 year term of trump to come, but do you think some of the things that have happened already are going to change things for good? come, the risk will return to business as usual, off the trump not at the moment. because while there may be the ability to deal with trump even to maneuver with trump on individual issues. you know, we've talked about tariffs, for example. we've talked about ukraine, for example, on other issues. there is not room to maneuver with trump right now. israel gar

it's clear, trump no longer wants to be the big boy in nato. and nato itself may collapse not mega sort of collapsed in 1992 along with the soviet union and the worst. so back. but it's the last of this long and manufactured the conflicts, and it looks like that the era of such events is over or, you know, nice that as we know has been fading. you train with these promises of accession to the military block for 2 decades. the following translated announcements, the nato, a chief mock worst has suddenly wilks back, a pledge to make us pause of the block off the tops. what do you make of this dramatic flip flop? do you think would these just the stalls have more to come? yes, absolutely. my through to uh, who was uh, not so successful apartment is there of holland. um is that will be, i think, the caretaker of deluxe to the last years of the last month of naples, i think many european leaders some might be relieved because the pressure of the trump was putting on them the if you want native to continue, then you must devote 5 percent of your g d

war until we are in nato. this means that we will have an opportunity to protect ourselves with exactly the kind of army that is capable of doing so. these are appropriate nato weapons and the appropriate number of soldiers and the towers ukrainians. and we are ready to talk about everything from the contingent to security grants from nato. either we are in nato or nato is in us, so we are ready for any framework to start putting as well. we had done this. so lensky was due to be meeting with the us, vice president j. d vault. is until you would that me thing is not going to take place on friday. it seems to be an issue with the scheduling. but we also know that j. d. bronx has been a huge the critical of ukraine in general and it's role in new rule. so we were expecting that meeting might be a little bit fiery between the 2, particularly given the context of everything else that's being said. now your family does also seem to be frightening about the noise is coming out of the, from the white house, saying th

changed. nato has to do it jointly, and i don't agree with anybody who is putting nato men, membership of the table before the negotiations with russia has begun. so there is a statue. there is it, there isn't agreements. there is something middle is already decided and to change, it might be an option, but this is not something which one, nato member alone has to decide on. well, this has always been a bit of a back and forth in your best. somebody does say yes, they support ukraine's. our mission is to be part of nato. the leaders saying, well, you know, not so much. we don't think it's that important to know. noted sol, interesting. e, now we've obviously had a change of nature leadership under the full mouth, nato boss. uh, there was always a yes. ukraine has this pulse towards nato. now we're hearing from mock hood two's the former prime minister of the netherlands, who's now the head of natal. well, actually ukraine becoming part of nato was never part of the security guarantees. new a p. steel, very interesting woods from him, has to be enjoying a lasting piece. there's absolute

ambassador type nato. you may have heard mr.e talking about some knows what it comes to the future of american support for ukraine. will there be arms or future engagement. president zelenskyy has tried to appease donald trump by offering lucrative reconstruction constructs and access to ukraine's rare-earth minerals. today the new u.s. treasury secretary scott bessent was in washington to begin the -- those talks. >> the united states is committed to ukraine's independence and also committed that the american people will also understand what we are doing here. president trump has a plan to end this war and we would like an economic cooperation agreement. in exchange, the u.s. will continue providing material support for the ukraine. christian: well, that's interesting it is a nay -- --, isn't it? we will look more at that late the program. around the world and across the u.k., you are watching bbc news. ♪ christian: welcome back. we are in the content to a crucially important weekend in the middle east with the assumption of a

no nato membership or pre my done 2014 borders for key as president trump. we are firms, his administration spends on negotiations concerning events in the event and i'm, and i'm ok with that. i just want the word whether they are there or not. but i, it certainly would seem to be that.