judge may lean mercedes cannon, to hold a hearing to clarify that defendant nauta is satisfied wither, stanley woodward. the star witness in the case, known as trump employee 4 in the filings, switched lawyers to a public defender and then became a cooperating prosecution witness. trump employee 4 testified to special counsel jack smith's in washington that he told what nauta and de oliveira to delete the security video after the fbi subpoenaed that video from trump's president. trump employee 4 was the tech guy who would've had to delete that video. defense attorney stanley woodward insisted, in a court filing today, the trump employee 4, instead of becoming the star witness at the trial, should not be allowed to testify at all because his testimony was unfairly obtained by special prosecutor jack smith's use of a washington d. c. grand jury. harry lippman is back with us. also with us is bradley moss, a national security attorney. and before we get to what we were just discussing, i want you to listen to the latest testimony from donald trump, bravely delivered, on a fawning right

one other thing that will complicate this is walt nauta and mr. tavares were at one time represented by the same person, stan woodward. he is a frequent character in this case. he represents a lot of people. he is paid by a trump-aligned political action committee. so once tavares decided to sort of change the story that he was giving prosecutors, agreed to cooperate, right before that he changed lawyers. so he is no longer represented by stan woodward, but it still could be an issue, particularly if he was to testify at trial. he could possibly be cross examined by his previous lawyer, so that's something that the judge is seeking briefings on. that's something they'll have to work out. but this is a significant development in the mar-a-lago docs case. >> very significant. a lot of the information, laura, as you and i know read it and came in as document and it has been released and the southern district of florida, west palm beach division the united states of america versus donald j. trump and walt nauta, and how significant is this new revelat

able to keep a lot of people in the fold, in this case, people who do have a lot to lose and walt nauta and carlos de oliveira, and to see tavares break away and get his own attorney and move away from the cushiness of the trump pac-funded lawyers. >> very quickly, this is a nightmare for trump that some of his co-defendants will flip, begin to cooperate against him. >> of course, and to dana's point, after what happened to michael cohen. he flipped very publicly on the former president. the former president has been much more careful about trying to keep people in the fold and there are some questions about some of his advisers and why they're still around, but i've been told people close to him and even the former president acknowledge that yeah, it's important to keep these people in the fold to the extent possible and help with their legal fees to an extent. we know there are limits on his generosity there, but he definitely learned lessons from michael cohen, and i'm sure he is not pleased that mr. tavares is cooperating and he is not in the same league as boris epistein or michael

and that's why he said walt nauta and tavares in this course to do. trump is absolutely wrong when he says they were his tapes. he did not have to give them over. his sorts of breaks down. he almost sounds like a kid in a schoolyard saying, i don't have to give it to you. you give me that. it is a very odd reaction from trump. i think that that tape recording will be powerful when it's played to a jury. >> andrew weissmann, if you are walt nauta, and you had a criminal defense lawyer who's really looking out for your interests, would that lawyer find anything helpful to walt nauta in what donald trump said yesterday? >> no, there's nothing. there's nothing that trump is going to be offering with respect to walt nauta. and he's gonna be completely fungible in the former president's interest. i mean, there's no loyalty here other than trying to not have him cooperate in the way that he is reported to be reaching out to mark meadows to signal that he should not cooperate. but, you know, here, walt nauta has remained loyal. obviously, it's his right to go

so that option may be available for nauta as well.s could blow up in donald trump's face, paying for all these lawyers. >> john dean, good to see you. thank you so much . >>> coming up, american tennis star coco gauff about to play her first grand slam final. the 19-year-old will face the world number two for the u.s. open title. j.p. morgan wealth management knows it's easy to get lost in investment research. get help with j.p morgan personal advisors. hey, david! ready to get started? work with advivisors who create a plan with you, and hehelp you find the right investments. so great getting to know you, let's take a look at your new investment plan. ok, great! this should have you moving in the right direction. thanks jen. get ongoing advice; and manage your investments in the chase mobile app. at typical insurance, you're just another senior. that's the third health insurance commercial with seniors at a farmers market. righ don't get me wrong i love a fresh heirloom, but it like those companie think we're all the same. that's why

' testimony be significant with regard to walt nauta, reminding everyone he's charged with obstructionnd concealment related charges connected with this exact conversation? >> he's on that video footage taken from mar-a-lago actually moving the boxes. michael of course also has text messages, photos really of those boxes. it's really hard to refute video evidence and, you know, photographic evidence of that nature. she likely had a lot of conversations with nauta, again, bolstering that narrative. >> her account about donald trump writing notes on these classified materials, it doesn't -- i guess the way i would describe it is it doesn't seem to directly relate to any of the specific charges that trump is facing in the documents case, so what does that mean to the case? does that mean that she potentially if i'm parsing it this way, that she could mean less or donald trump's legal team could say that she should mean less to a jack smith prosecution? >> no, i don't think so. i do think it's less important than the obstruction issue. >> yeah. >> i think it paints a picture of just how so

he implicated walt nauta and others in their effort to delete security camera footage.mer prosecutor elliott williams is joining us now, and welcome back with snazzy new glasses and great new tie, and we will talk about that later, but this is more important right now. and let's talk about the allegations here in the indictment that deolivera said that "the boss" wanted the surveillance footage deleted and it seems that the testimony could be crucial in this, and how much might this impact this case against donald trump? >> so it could be crucial testimony, and big picture why the witnesses matter and how you get a witness to matter is when somebody can testify first hand as to conversations they had with the defendant or the co-conspirator, and here, taveras worked or had communication with de oliveira and nauta and others and placed close to the former president. look, it appears he can't implicate the president, himself, but an important question is always what you can get into court. conversations that an individual has rather than ones that he overheard or saw can

trump then talked to walt nauta.lt nauta then talk to another person, the third named defendant, and then, that person -- walt talk to, now, this cooperating witness. so, there's a lot of telephone. you don't know if he's going to know what is in trump's mind, if he was even aware of the subpoena, he knew trump was aware of the subpoena. so, we will see what comes out of it. but this person is low level enough that it does not -- it would not give me immense heartburn, i guess. >> they certainly have to follow the leader and follow that game, but then again, there are three codefendants, and perhaps testifying against one might actually induce pressure in other ways. but that's up to jack smith to prove his burden in this case. also, there's this point where donald trump was telling hugh hewitt today that he was willing to go on the stand to defend himself at trial, and we have heard trump say, oftentimes, that he would testify, and then he would oftentimes say, i would do it. but my lawyer say i can't. so, in this i

and i think the fact he's cooperating really strengthens the special counsel's hand vis-a-vis nauta and de oliveira. although it was clear that they were providing information, the fact that he's now entered into an agreement shows he's working in a more cooperative, steady, consistent fashion with the special counsel and the special counsel has agreed not to prosecute him if he agrees to continue cooperating. he helps increase the odds that perhaps one of the other two defendants named with trump might themselves flip. that's what we're really waiting to see in terms of the next document no that could strengthen the case. >> one domino has to fall. somebody has to be the first, so he is at least one of the first to decide to change attorneys, his attorney, by the way, was also nauta's attorney, and now he has decided to change that. i do find it interesting because he retracted, according to the doj, prior false testimony. that could have been a charge against him, correct? >> yes. if he in fact perjured himself before the grand jury when he said he had no information about any efforts

one of them trump's codefendants in florida, what nauta, is represented by the same criminal defense lawyer, stanley woodward, who managed to get a guilty verdict for his client, peter navarro, in washington. stanley woodward called no defense witnesses and could not think of a single relevant question to cross examine the prosecutions witnesses. walt nauta doesn't seem like the kind of defendant who will speak to the news media himself if he is convicted, but we can expect stanley woodward to say something like this if walt nauta is found guilty in the obstruction of justice conspiracy he is charged with in florida. >> we knew going into what the verdict was going to be. that's why this is going to the appeals court. >> you will be hearing that a lot. also today, georges fulton county district attorney fani willis told jim jordan that he is an utter buffoon. but she didn't say it that way because she is a much better writer than i am. she sent a nine-page letter to jim jordan, the non lawyer, who is the republican chairman of the house judiciary committee. it was or applied to his c

i think that's unlikely, and what's more likely to happen is walt nauta's lawyer is blocked from doing the cross-examination as a cooperating witness at trial because he used to represent him, and therefore has knowledge in his possession that could be used against his former client. >> complicating, barbara, what do you think? >> there's nothing, we know from the superseding indictment, they added, the idea that he got a new lawyer doesn't seem inappropriate. there is a sealed filing that we don't know the content of. based on what is known in the public domain right now, i don't see any reason that the judge should suppress the testimony of taveras which i think will be an important witness. >> i've heard prosecutorial misconduct in some way or another. we have had a lawyer come on our show say that about tim parlatore, and his experience with the team. and this lawyer saying potential grand jury abuse. is it going to hold water, the idea that the special counsel's team is not acting by the book. i know it's hard to see because we don't have all the evidence ahead of us. do you have

. >> it's also walt nauta's attorney. >> the guy is everywhere. there is conflicts of interest everywhere. look, this happens all the time where someone comes in and they lie to you the first time. in an ideal world for prosecutors, witnesses would come in the first time. that would tell you everything they did, everything they know, that would be great. it doesn't happen in reality all that often. especially where someone comes in and they've got lawyer with the conflict of interest, because people in that situation are naturally reluctant. because, a, they feel like i can't really say something about the guy who is paying for him. and b, if i do, i'm going lose that lawyer, then have to hire any own lawyer, way more expensive than people realize, or get a public defend. >> i think that's what happened with employee after the tavares. as long as you can explain that to a jury, you'll be find. still a useful witness. >> does it create liability problems? >> a little bit. juries in my experience understand that phenomenon. >> and walt nauta, this i

. >> and, walt nauta. i mean, this ip worker is connected to walt nauta, he's probably the host person having slipped, right? >> so, there is no evidence that he, the de--- spoke directly to trump? >> when it came to the orders that he wanted the surveillance footage deleted. that came from carlos de oliveira who said, the boss wants this footage deleted. >> this is how you pull a case, if you pull a threat, you unravel the whole sweater. best-case scenario, the i. t. worker gets two de oliveira or nauta. worst-case scenario, he's a useful witness, because he takes you in, any takes about the larger effort to delete the surveillance. >> and the georgia case now, it seems in the trump legal team has predicted it going to try to move to federal court? >> yeah, that's a no-brainer. i think it's interesting that he is waiting though, because he has 30 days for raymond to. meadows of course is on the brink, kaitlan and i have been saying every day, every day or now i, stand by that, every day we will get that d

then the next month in december 2021 trump's valet, walt nauta, texted this photo to that same trump employee number 2 showing documents clearly marked secret spilled all over the floor at mar-a-lago. mr. nauta and employee number 2 coordinated for months and personally moved several of trump's boxes around the property. while nbc news has not independently confirmed this "the new york times" and "the washington post" and abc news have all identified trump employee number 2 as his former executive assistant, a woman named molly michael. and abc news reports when trump heard the fbi wanted to talk to ms. michael last year, trump didn't overtly tell molly michael to lie. it wasn't as straightforward as that. instead trump reportedly told his assistant molly michael, who he knew knew a ton about these boxes, he reportedly told her, you don't know anything about the boxes. you don't know anything about those boxes. that kind of mafia-like double speak is really helpful as we try to begin to understand the former president's defense here. just last week trump said this to my colleague, kr

employee number four retract ed his prior false testimony and provided information that implicated nautaefforts to delete security camera footage as set torte in the superseding indictment. >> this was the first explicit acknowledgment of what happened. we all speculated, certainly when we saw the indictment. and we heard similar reports on the story, had heard that there had been someone who had change ed their story under pressure from the prosecution. that's what explains all of what happened and what you see in that indictment, what's also interesting is that when prosecutors keep going around is the idea that there are a number of people who are represented by people who are lawyer who is are paid for by trump's political committee. and they are trying their best to keep things together, keep their stories straight. and this guy, he's only identified as employee 4 in the documents, he's the first to break away from that and expose what has been happening. it's going to be interesting to see how the judge handles this. prosecutors want a hearing to address some of these obvious confl

nauta and mr. oliviera, who face potentially years and years in jail, haven't yet cooperated.mained loyal to donald trump. but yes, this could be the first domino that topples others. the deals probably will not be as good for them as mr. taveres, who reportedly is not going to have to face any kind of a sanction. he's just a cooperator. >> jeff duncan, donald trump was asked during an interview today about whether he would testify in his own defense. i want you to listen to what he actually said. listen to this. >> if you have to go to trial, will you testify in our own defense? >> oh yes, absolutely. >> you'll take the stand? >> that i look forward to. >> i'll note that trump also said he wanted to testify in the mueller investigation, as a lot of us remember, but never did. what is your reaction to this? >> well, he may have to testify, because he might be the only person to testify on his own behalf by the time this is over with. put yourself in the shoes of this entry level i.t. worker that just followed orders of his boss, maybe his boss' boss as it's been described, and

this is one where the judge would be well advised to not have representing walt nauta. nonetheless, i wouldn't be surprised if judge cannon just admonishes him about the potential, that's ultimately, there could be a potential to by his lawyer, he's not getting accurate presentation, of course he has a lawyer that's not going to make sure he's aware of the potential maybe he was interested in cooperating against trump either. ultimately, at the end of the day, i don't expect judge cannon to do anything that's going to open up the door for a new lawyer here for donald trump. >> let's say she says, no, we're have to clean the slate, these guys need new lawyers. won't that push back the dates? won't that delay this trial even more, which is what donald trump actually wants more than anything, ronaldo. >> that's possible, but i think having a lawyer who's truly independent will be an issue as well. obviously, just because a different lawyer selected doesn't mean it could be a lower paid for by donald trump but, nonetheless, i think that at this point in time, trump world do

planning on needing walt nauta to turn on donald trump.o them are people like molly michael, because she has absolutely -- she appears to have zero criminal exposure whatsoever. the government loves people like that who come in and talk to them. i always believe, and many folks would agree, i think you might agree with me, charles, that when these people in trump's orbit -- when trump got indicted, they're a lot of people who are in the administration, there are people that were just doing their job. and they don't want to get in trouble, they may not have done anything criminal, and these are the kind of people that probably rushed to the government to say, whoa, if you're looking into this, i will tell you everything you want to know. according to reports, that's exactly what mueller michael did. she came to a dusk, something for government missed, and reportedly said, hey, you guys missed every something. here's everything you need. this is what the government needs, even more than cooperators. because cooperators have criminal exposure

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but here walt nauta has remained loyal. it is wise to not go to trial. it may not be in his interest, legally, but on the other hand you might decide financially if it's better for me and if donald trump wins the presidency or not like he could be pardoned. but that is a big gamble for him and his counsel. >> andrew weizmann, joyce vance, thank you very much for starting off our conversation tonight. and please stay with us for the next one. because today in georgia, one of donald trump's court defendants said donald trump made me do it. that's next. it. that's next. with artificial intelligence, groundbreaking transparent hood technology, and intuitive design inside and out. ♪ ♪ this is the all-new glc. completely reimagined. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. in

guy cooperating who will say, yeah, nauta and de oliveira, they were told trump wanted the videos gone. it will be amazing and the jury will say, this guy, this guy is done. >> yeah, glenn, i'll give you the last word. i feel like it's mean to the keystone cops to say keystone cops but these are the kind of things on the recording, trump, wouldn't it be better if we just told them we don't have anything here? this is in the indictment. well, look, isn't it better if there are no documents when he knew there were. i don't want anybody looking. i don't want anybody looking through my boxes. i really don't. i mean, trump's intent to your earlier point about how open and shut this is and how much they have in trump's own voice, in trump's own words from trump's own attorney is staggering. >> well, the other thing about it is, let's go to the other audiotape, the bedminster tape where he essentially admits that he -- this stuff is super secret, guys and it's not been declassified essentially, so there are layers of evidence, so in addition to sort of this, you have several other examples of

trump, you know, directing his aides, walt nauta, and carlos de oliveira, to move a lot of boxes out of the storage unit and many fewer boxes back into that storage unit, we know now that maybe wasn't just to avoid mr. corcoran being able to see all the classified and go into it and provide the government the response to the subpoena but maybe was to seek those documents away so if there was a search warrant, it wouldn't be found. >> it was almost like he was acutely aware a search warrant was on the horizon and did everything in his power to make sure certain documents were not found. is it strange to you evan corcoran -- first of all, the fact evan corcoran was making voice memos about his client behaving at best erratically, at worst unlawfully, is that a normal thing in terms of counsel? and secondly, by all the reporting we have, evan corcoran is still engaged as a legal advisor to donald trump. is that bizarre? >> yeah, so, you know, in terms of the voice memos, it's not unusual for a -- for an attorney to memorialize their contacts with their client. right, they want to keep a

you know what, it convinced walt nauta to join. he convince carlos oliviera to join.nvinced lucille tavares, at the i. t. director to join, albeit only temporarily, while he was being represented by a lawyer being paid for by trump pack money. but once he got an independent conflict free of council, he retracted his lies that he told to protect trump and the others and started spilling the beans. he will be a powerful witness against donald trump. now it looks like molly michael was perhaps stronger than all of these men put together. it looks like she refused to join donald trump's conspiracy, when he told her that the fbi will talk to you, you don't know nothing about no boxes. i am paraphrasing in goodfellas style there. then she said trump also told her that i need you to spread the word that there are no boxes left. you know what, miss michael knew that could be untrue. what did she do? she took pictures of a bunch of the boxes that somehow made their way to the fbi, the federal prosecutors, and those pictures made an appearance in the indictment itself. so thank

walt nauta is the one that becomes fascinating to me.footage exactly what had happened. and once taveras tells them about trump wanting to delete all of that footage he seems to instantly implicate his co-conspirators. but it seems that as far as we know the government doesn't have any breakthroughs with nauta or the others even after they gained his cooperation. >> i think the most interesting part of this story or one of it is actually buried toward the end, where they talk about, and this has been reported but it's still not answered. was the pool drained to destroy the servers. because the servers why moved by one of the trump org folks after the flood to ensure that they wouldn't be destroyed. and the story says, as my colleagues report, that it's still unclear why the pool was drained and had it been drained to destroy these things. and i'm not sure how legally that changes it, but it's just an extraordinary fact or question. that these individuals who were trying to protect this stuff went to such great lengths that they drained a

. >> mike, it seems to provide some more evidence ability what they had on walt nauta.g to read it again some of this was captured on the surveillance let me read from the story. or from michael's testimony. "speaking to federal investigators, michael recounted how by late 2021 as many as 90 boxes of materials from trump's time as president were moved into a basement storage room at mar-a-lago and how as pressure from the national archives mounted she and trump aide walt nauta would bring the boxes to trump's residence for him to review. trump eventually agreed to turn over 15 boxes which michael told investigators she viewed as a positive sign. but then according to what she told investigators around the same time that the national archives found nearly 200 classified documents in the 15 boxes and referred the matter to the fbi trump began to seem more reluctant to cooperate with the agency and he asked michael to help spread the message that no more boxes existed, sources said she recounted." so that feels like an important piece of evidence that the government may ha

people like walt nauta, who really has been quite literally the body man for the president. and he will now have to make a decision, is he like navarro, willing to go to prison for trump, or does he need to correct course now while he still has time? >> well let's talk about donald trump. because now, joyce, he is sort of hinting that he might ask for his case in georgia to be moved to federal court. what's he really doing here, seeing if mark meadows gets it, and if he does, he'll try to jump on board? >> he is going to milk the criminal process for every last second of delay that he can get. so, under georgia rules, he doesn't have to file a notice of removal until 30 days after the date of his arraignment. you'll recall he waved arraignment, but there will be a docket entry on the court. and 30 days after that is when he has to, and when i suspect he will file his motion for removal. there is little downside for him in doing that, because it's a delay game. the real issue here will be, how long will it take the 11th circuit to rule on these cases after the district judge

and i would hope that the folks around walt nauta are advising him to do the same.we've seen, trump is funding his legal defense, so that doesn't seem likely. but someone like molly michael are particularly interesting to me because she does not seem like she was vulnerable to any criminal charges, but when trump told her, look, you know nothing about these boxes, amid the fbi probe, she felt very uncomfortable and ended up resigning from her position, because she obviously felt like he was trying to push her toward potentially engaging in criminal activity, and she felt uncomfortable by that. i wonder if other people -- >> did you speak to her about that, sarah? you say she resigned as a result of that. what is your basis for believing that? >> that is just based on the timing of when she resigned. and in "the new york times" reporting, they indicated that there was a connection there. >> so when you look at this and think about the resignation, she obviously no longer works there for the president. mind you, this is somebody who followed him after he left the whit

interestingly, his co-defendants, walt nauta and carlos de oliveira is unlikely if they'll be able toecific court order. >> they don't have security clearance. >> exactly. >> paul a thank you very, very much. >> coming up, i'll speak with cnn's chief international anchor christiane amanpour on the major news of the day and honor her distinguished reporting career as she marks a milestone right here at cnn. work it. like the upshaws. the nelsons. and the caggianos. run wiwith us and start telling your story. (ella) fashion moves fast. setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... ..n real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) so our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) it's not just a network. it's enterprise intelligence. (vo) learn more. it's your vision, it's your verizon. why didn't we do this last year? before you were preventing migraine with

we have seen other employees for the former president charged alongside him, walt nauta, they have beenneys by the trump pac. that's not happening for yucil taveras. he has gotten another attorney. he is cooperating with prosecutors. basically, he was threatened with the potential charges and agreed to change his tune. again, this is someone who was talking to other employees about the surveillance footage at mar-a-lago. prosecutors say there was an effort to try to destroy that footage. i want to go back to some of the indictment that lays out the conversations. yard line is referred to as trump employee number four. he is in a conversation with carlos the property manager. it says he "trumping democracy: an american coup" employee four the boss wanted the server deleted. he would not know how to do that and didn't believe he would have the rights to do that. trump employee four doled doll vera he would have to reach out to another employee. he insisted to trump employee four that the boss wanted the serve he deleted and asked what are we going to do? even in the indictment you see the

nauta and employee number two coordinated for months and personally moved several of trump's boxes around the property. now, while nbc news has not independently concern this, the new york times in the washington post and abc news have all identified trump employee number two as his former executive assistant, a woman named emily michael. and abc news reports that when trump heard that the fbi wanted to talk to miss michael last year, trump didn't overtly tell molly michael to live. it wasn't as straightforward as that. instead, trump reportedly told his assistant, molly michael, who he knew a ton about these boxes, he reportedly told her, you don't know anything about the boxes. you don't know anything about those boxes. that kind of mafia like double speak is really helpful, as we try to begin to understand the former presidents defense here. just last week, trump said this to my colleague, kristen malcolm. >> i want to ask you about the case related to mar-a-lago, a new charge suggests you asked a staffer to delete security for him up footage so it wouldn't get to the hands of investig

agree to flip and cooperate, which really does put donald trump and the other two codefendants, walt nauta carlos, in more jeopardy. it can serve as a catalyst for other people who might then decide to save themselves rather than to continue to side with donald trump. >> greg, have you heard anything from bill willis's team about whether they can handle a trial with 19, 17 defendants next month? >> yeah, her office has always been very clear that she wants to try all 19 defendants, and we have two separations, but she wants to try all 19 defendants in fulton county in her home court at the same time. the judge raised significant issues, logistical issues such as how you fit all of those defendants in one courtroom with such heavy publicity surrounding it, and remember, of course, beyond the donald trump expected motions to move to federal court, you already have five other motions from codefendants to remove the case to federal court and the judge noted that could complicate the entire time line as well as whatever ruling comes out, there will be appeals, there will be appeals, all sorts o

she was making this clear for the trump team and for waltine nauta, the oliveira, in terms of their accessin the past, whatever going to bring me would pretrial motion defenses. now you're being granted access as part of this case, here are the rules are going to abide by. you want to rebuild a scif at mar-a-lago? that's not -- i'm not even going to grant you that. that's gonna be out of the court security officer. and you're going to get to do whatever that security officer says. if they don't want to grant you special privileges, guess what, too bad, that's the person who's going to make the rules. that person doesn't work for you. that's a government security official that is going to do it by the book. and i don't really care one way or the other, because i don't work for you either. >> bradley moss, harry litman, and thank you both very much for joining us tonight. and coming up, it truly won't be the last time that trump and putin agree. they did it again. professor timothy snyder joins us next. joins us next. mass general brigham -- when you need some of the brightest minds in medic

i'm going to come in on this day, and the government believes donald trump said to his aide, walt nautaoxes so evan can't find them. >> right. >> it's kind of a big deal, though, right? >> the fact that evan told them, this is when and where i'm going to be, if the government's theory is backed by evidence on this walt moving the boxes allegation, that would be relevant to that. but really it's just limited to that. the rest of it is classic attorney client communications, this should not been turned over. and judge cannon will reverse judge howell's decision, as they did on the scott perry case yesterday or the day before. i don't think the judge howell's rulings at the time are going to stand. one important thing as well. when we litigated this, ordinarily a ruling comes down and you get a certain period of time to turn the notes over or file a notice of appeal. judge howell turned the notes over instantly to the government and didn't give an opportunity to file a notice of appeal as she did with scott perry. what you saw with the scott perry, where they appealed it, and appellate cou

. >> absolutely, she was making this clear for the trump team and for while t nauta and -- in terms ofe are the loss in place, put aside whatever happened in the past, whatever pretrial motion defenses, not your being granted access as part of the case, here are the rules that you will abide by. you want to rebuild a skip at mar-a-lago, that will be up to the court security officer, and you will get to do whatever that security officer says. if they don't want to grant special privileges, guess what, to bet, that's the person will make the rules. that person is not work for you, that is government security official that will do it by the book, and i don't really care one way or the other, because i don't work for you either. >> bradley moss, harry litman, thank you both very much for joining us tonight. coming up, it surely won't be the last time that trump and putin agree. they did it again. professor timothy snyder joins us next. er joins us next. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get

if that were available to the other codefendants like nauta and deolive are you, they could flip as well. then there are issues on protective orders. there's not been a hearing on the documents case since mid-july, so i think that needs to get moving. i think a case that has a chance going to trial before the election is the d.c. case with judge chutkan. that case is built for speed. so i think that one is going first. and the atlanta case is really good case against the 19 defendants, but it's a complex rico case, and i think that one could get bogged down because of the sheer number of defendants and all the different counts. the case i'm watching, the d.c. case, the new york case, but the strongest two cases, the documents case and the atlanta fulton county case i think will probably go after the election. >> and with the federal election interference case built for speed that explains some of the stalling tactics trump's team is doing with tanya chutkan. thank you for joining us this morning. >>> we turnover seas now and desperate search and rescue efforts under way in morocco follow

but multiple sources were working to verify that she and walt nauta were the ones that brought this up to donald trump and said go through these, what do you want to give, what do you want to keep? at one point he said that's all the boxes, tell them that's all we have. and at this point she said she knew there were many many more boxes and they weren't being forthright with the fbi. she is the right hand to donald trump, a key witness in this case. >> the report adds this damning detail. sources tell abc when trump heard they wanted to interview michael last year, he told her you don't know anything about the boxes. so that would be a problem legally for the former president. yes, this reiterates and underscores what we have known about the trump white house, we were reporting how chaotic it was, how they ignored norms and practices, they turned up their nose at basic security procedures. they didn't always go through proper and regular channels and this, now we know, that even classified documents were used at times as scrap paper and in the closing days of the administration during