and walt nauta did tell him, you could come back to work at mar-a-lago if you wanted, that walt nauta was also showing up at a gym with this man as well as carlos deoel vera, which was unusual. as this former employee left his job a couple of months after that fbi search before he becomes a crucial witness to investigators, donald trump gets his cell phone number, hadn't called him in quite some time, rarely called an employee like this, and calls him and asks him, why are you leaving? why are you leaving working for me? very possibly at that time knowing that this man could be a witness against him in this investigation. now, all of this may just be how people are exchanging conversations, how people have conversations, how their friends have conversations, what trump is doing when people are leaving. but it all is happening at such an interesting time that the special counsel's office did pick up on this pattern of interaction. they did look into it at one point in time. they were told about several of these instances. >> so, they knew about this? this was previously known to jack s

mar-a-lago property manager carlos de oliveira, and walt nauta, putting the employee in a unique group of staffers who could be in a position to provide valuable information to investigators. the outreach included a direct call from trump as well as offers to pay for his legal representation, complimentary tickets to a golf tournament and reminders he could get his job back if he wanted it. joining me is lisa reuben and glenn kirschner, normer federal prosecutor. thank you for being here, both of you. here's the cnn story. it is, lisa, quite a tale. and what struck me was the sort of persistence, let's say, of deole avara in particular in going at this employee multiple times. showing up at parties and events with them, inviting them to come back and work for trump. saying no, no, people around trump saying let us get you a lawyer. is that witness intimidation? >> you know, joy, that's a hard question to answer. it certainly is on the border of witness intimidation. the other thing i think shouldn't be neglected here is that the person is indeed a witness. and when you compare cnn's re

there is also an instance where he interacts with walt nauta, who later is charge. he has a less close relationship to, and walt nauta did tell him, you could come back to work at mar-a-lago if you wanted, that walt nauta was also showing up at a gym with this man, as well as carlos de oliveira, which was unusual. and then finally, anderson, the one of the things that was so unusual here is as this former employee left his job a couple months after that fbi search, before he becomes a crucial witness to investigators, donald trump gets his cell phone number. had not called him in quite some time, rarely called an employee like this. and calls him, and asks him, why are you leaving? why are you leaving working for me? very possibly, at that time, knowing that this man could be a witness against him in this investigation. now, all of this may just be how people are exchanging conversations, how people have conversations, how their friends have conversations, what trump is doing when people are leaving. but it all is happening at such an interesting time that the speci

yeah, he had to send walt nauta. 'cause trump entering a gym is like a vampire going into a church.just turns into a pile of dust and bronzer. today in washington, arguments were underway in the civil defamation trial of former trump attorney rudy giuliani, seen here learning the best lawyer he can get is rudy giuliani. now, this particular trial is about false statements that rudy made about two georgia election workers. after the 2020 election, he accused the two of secretively exchanging a usb drive, when in reality they were exchanging a ginger mint. to be fair, i'm pretty sure giuliani has never seen a mint. just look at his teeth. the bottoms are all butterscotch and the tops are all chicklets. the election staffers that giuliani spread lies about are two black women, one named ruby freeman and her daughter shaye moss, and because of what he said about them, they went through absolute hell. according to their lawyer, they were flooded with accusations of treason and threats laden with expletives and racial slurs, they were forced into hiding, and on at least one occasion giuli

escalating nauta flying them to chicago.emocratic officials have blasted the texas governor for doing this, as has the white house, it is also an issue for white house officials. they are also hearing from democratic city officials who say they are needs to be more down at the border so that this stops. but the message here from the white house in response to the texas governor has been this, this is a political stunt in in a quote, a white house spokesperson said yet again, governor abbott's showing how little respect jesper human beings. this political stun adds to his tally of extreme policies which seeks to demonize and to humanize people. the white house blasting the texas governor. but boris and breonna, this remains a political vulnerability for the president and today this is a clear example of why. >> priscilla, whitney, thank you to both of you. today it is a dire warning on the unbearable scenes that are playing out in northern gaza that we have been watching. the world health organization is saying that there are

-- oliveira and walt nauta.me overlap and different aspects of the investigation, and it's not unusual for a corporate entity like the trump organization or mar-a-lago club to be paying for employees lawyers, but there is just so much interconnectedness here, and it is an obstruction investigation. it's caught prosecutors attention, they're watching closely. >> renato, to kaitlan's point, a setup like this, is unusual wary corporation helps to represent certain employees and prosecution. how does the question of conflict of interest play into this entire case? >> great question. the fact that somebody is paying fees in and of itself does not create a conflict. really, anyone can pay for another lawyers fee, and the idea is under the lot they want to increase the ability to afford representation, and so the idea is that the lawyers themselves have their own obligations to look out for the clients interests. unless the clients that the representing have a divergent interest from each other and they are at odds, pa

back and work for donald trump as well as a visit from two now codefendants of the president, walt nauta and carlos rivera. they even got an offer to go to a golf tournament. all of this prosecutors are interested in because this is a person who was privy to some of the conversations of the former president. this person moved boxes. again, a key witness in this investigation. it fits a pattern that prosecutors have been very, very interested in. you've seen this now in the updated indictment that shows a pattern that they believe was obstruction of this investigation, wolf. >> interesting. evan perez, thank you very much for that update. right now the legendary journalists bob woodward and carl bernstein to get their perspective on the impact of trump's criminal cases. bob, the supreme court rule on whether or not trump is immune from federal prosecution using nixon's case as a precedent. you both, of course, broke watergate, as all of us remember. are the stakes even higher right now? >> well, they are. because it's so complicated. i don't want to sound like a lawyer, but in the nixon c