guy who has had a career of extraordinary success who went through this financial crisis, navigated j.p. morgan through it better than any other bank with the possible exception of goldman sachs, loses $2 billion, really $1 billion from a group that had had great success on a balance sheet of $2.5 trillion and a market capital of $150 billion. i don't think we should run him out of town and tar him feather him just yet. >> rose: when he says "something failed within, we made an egregious mistake" what is he talking about? >> what he's talking about-- and i agree with gillian, or at least i think i do-- there was a lack of control and oversight. this group had been very successful doing real hedging and doing other kinds of less risky trades in the past. the bank gave them more and more capital as you would with anybody successful. more and more leash, more and more runway and then they lost track of them, i believe. now gillian has a less benign view, maybe, but it was a failure to supervise basically. >> i mean, i'll give you an example. one of the key instruments they were involved with was a