so far this season, five firms voting down the firm's pay plan including the one at navistar. >> maryu had chris on from iss, and i notice their advice -- advice can play an important role in a lot of these kinds of services -- a lot of these fights and of course, there is some debate about whether that should be the case and whether iss' analysis is one that should be listened to, but very interesting and certainly an important time of the year that they were headed into. >> it is. as he was mentioning again, and it's the rise of the activist shareholder. the concern about proxy advisers, too, like iss is the way they are con flicked in some way. nevertheless, their thoughts on how you should vote a proxy does carry great sway so people, shareholders, particularly institutional shareholders tend to listen to them. something i want to talk about with simon, he mentioned earlier after i mentioned my piece on say on pay. that's right, the shareholders may vote against a compensation plan and it's handed back to the board to decide whether or not they want to do anything on it and typica