there's a way to get that information other than ncic. and if there needs to be an exception to ncic for government agencies that are looking at fraud, i can't speak for the gentleman from maryland but i'll be happy to do that and i don't think law enforcement would resist is one bit. miss fong you mentioned a 50% conviction rate. i would have been run out of office if i had a 50% conviction rate and i don't think mr. cummings would have been hired as often as he was hired if he had one. that strikes me as a low conviction rate. is it because you're negotiating a civil instead of a criminal punishment? does the statute need to be changed? what needs to be done so we don't swing and miss half the time? >> let me take a look at that data. i want to make sure i get you the right percentage and i'll provide that for the record. when we do that we'll provide with you our insights on that. >> all right. my final question for you is this. if i wrote the numbers down right, you said there's 900 cases, 600 of which are against retailers. i think y

meehan's point about ncic. ncic has arrests that don't result in convictions, pardons, expungements, other information law enforcement may have an interest in seeing but they are not convictions. but the remedy is very easy because schools do it and churches do it and after-school programs do it. just have one ncic trained operator on site and then redact the nonconvictions. the notion that we can't do background checks on people who want to do business with the government, people do them all the time for schools, churches, everyone does it. redact the information. go to a law enforcement agency that does track convictions. go to the court clerk's office. there's a way to get that information other than ncic. and if there needs to be an exception to ncic for government agencies that are looking at fraud, i can't speak for the gentleman from maryland but i'll be happy to do that and i don't think law enforcement would resist is one bit. miss fong you mentioned a 50% conviction rate. i would have been run out of

ncic has arrests that don't result in convictions. it is other information that law enforcement may have an interest in seeing. but they're not convictions. but the remedy is very easy because schools do it in churches do at attend afterschool programs do it. just have one ncic trained operator on site, and then reject the non-convictions. the notion that we can do background checks on people who want to do business with the government, people do them all the time. for schools, churches, everyone does it. redacting information, go to a law enforcement agency that does track convictions, go to the clerk of courts office, there's a way to get that information other than ncic. and is a need an exception to ncic, for government agencies that are looking at fraud, i can't speak for the gentleman from maryland but i will be happy. to do that, and adobe law enforcement would resist it one bit. ms. fong, you mentioned a 50% conviction rate. i would have been run out of office if i had a 50% conviction rate, and i don't think mr. cummings woul

we have received that recommendation that we rely on something called the ncic, national crime information center data. i was a former state director and i used that system through the state police in the states i was in. one has to be a law enforcement agency in order to access those data. we can't do it as the fns. the oig if it had the resources, it could possibly do so. we're not allowed to -- you have to be a law enforcement agency. >> all right. i understand what you're saying under-secretary. so then this is to general fong then. how would you suggest we review the criminal records then? what do we need to do to accomplish that? will it give us enough bang for the buck? if we invest in doing that, will we save a significant amount so it would be worth our while to do it? >> that's a very complex question. the under-secretary is right, we have been back and forth on this issue as to the best way to get criminal background information. i think right now the application form has been revised to require a certification under penalty of criminal prosecution, and i think that's a very goo

ncic has arrests that don't result in convictions.it is other information that law enforcement may have an interest in seeing. but they're not convictions. but the remedy is very easy because schools do it in churches do at attend afterschool programs do it. just have one ncic trained operator on site, and then reject the non-convictions. the notion that we can do background checks on people who want to do business with the government, people do them all the time. for schools, churches, everyone does it. redacting information, go to a law enforcement agency that does track convictions, go to the clerk of courts office, there's a way to get that information other than ncic. and is a need an exception to ncic, for government agencies that are looking at fraud, i can't speak for the gentleman from maryland but i will be happy. to do that, and adobe law enforcement would resist it one bit. ms. fong, you mentioned a 50% conviction rate. i would have been run out of office if i had a 50% conviction rate, and i don't think mr. cummings would

ncic has arrests that don't result in convictions.it is other information that law enforcement may have an interest in seeing. but they're not convictions. but the remedy is very easy because schools do it in churches do at attend afterschool programs do it. just have one ncic trained operator on site, and then reject the non-convictions. the notion that we can do background checks on people who want to do business with the government, people do them all the time. for schools, churches, everyone does it. redacting information, go to a law enforcement agency that does track convictions, go to the clerk of courts office, there's a way to get that information other than ncic. and is a need an exception to ncic, for government agencies that are looking at fraud, i can't speak for the gentleman from maryland but i will be happy. to do that, and adobe law enforcement would resist it one bit. ms. fong, you mentioned a 50% conviction rate. i would have been run out of office if i had a 50% conviction rate, and i don't think mr. cummings would

right now we do have the authority of the ig's office to run these kinds of ncic checks for programspose. so we will need to do some further consultation. >> well, you know, we're able i know in california to do background checks for childcare providers. so i can't believe that the federal government, as talented as it is, cannot find a way to create a means by which this background check can take place. so why would encourage the committee to pursue this and find a way to achieve that. the other issue that i wanted to draw attention to was this issue of suspension and debarment. i understand it, there were 615 wholesalers and retailers convicted, but none of them have been suspended or debarred. the rationale for not doing this is it is costly. know, democracy is costly. i don't think we can use the argument that it is costly. if we have evidence of convictions, and these retailers have violated the laws and we don't debar them, then shame on us. anyone want to respond to that? >> i can try to answer that. the preamble to the new departmental regulations under department excludes th

ncic, vital stats, federal and state court docs all clean. then i dug a little deeper. lived in delaware in 2006, so i called the local sheriff's department. huh. sex with a minor. no charges were brought. family didn't want their daughter's name dragged through the mud. you mind if i ask who this guy is? let me ask you something, gail. where do you see yourself in a few years from now? well... legal counsel has its perks. but i am interested in making a move to violent crimes. well, when that time comes, call me. and i'll make the recommendation. thank you. captioning sponsored by warner bros. captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org good morning. i don't want people to do things for me, you know. i try to do them myself. i don't want no one to look down on me. i was on a way from kandahar to qalat. i hit an i-e-d that just took the truck and threw it up in the air and slammed it on the ground. bye, bye. i knew at first that i got hurt pretty bad cause i couldn't move my legs. i sat home alone for months. i didn't want that anymore. i wanted to go back t