neal but i've always known him as richie neal. >> that's how i've always known him. there are questions among democrats who are saying, what is chairman neal doing? he has the right to demand these tax returns and he isn't doing it. you can see it is just a meticulously crafted piece. he has found exactly what tax returns and tax return information he wants, especially beyond the personal returns from the trump businesses. and that surely took quite a while to figure out exactly which trump businesses to go after. >> what do you make, lawrence, of the fact -- especially because you've known him for a long time. what do you make of the fact that he's not doing any interviews at all about this strategy or about this request he's now made of the irs? not only did he not do any interviews leading up to it, but he's not doing any interviews on tv, doesn't appear to be doing any print interviews, either. >> he is the mother of house chairman. i think he understands the position he's in, i think he understands that he has a unique power. he has a superpower. he has a power

and chairman neal is exercising this.the irs to provide this, and never has the irs refused such a request. it's always been granted, even in the case of richard nixon, gerald ford, and nelson rockefeller. so it would be unprecedented not to have the irs comply with this. >> the president has reacted to this news this evening by essentially suggesting that he won't allow his tax returns to be handed over, as if he has a role that he can direct the treasury department, that he can direct the irs specifically, that they should not respond to this request. what's your response to that? >> he doesn't have the authority to do so. the tax law allows us to ask the irs for those returns. the irs is an independent committee and federal agency, and so they -- they must comply with the law. and indeed, they have in every incidents in which these returns have been asked for. so no, the president is not standing on the right ground on this. >> i might imagine if try to put myself in the president's shoes or in the shoes of his adviser

chairman neal is going to get those tax returns.s anyone to get any tax returns, it's possible the legal fight could take a year and a half and then it won't matter if a new president is sworn in a year and a half from now. so the stakes for donald trump's re-election are much higher for donald trump than his first presidential campaign. the stakes for donald trump include staying out of prison, possibly, because with a new administration, it's all going to come out, every bit of the trump dirt is going to come out. the mueller report, the tax returns, and most importantly, that case in the southern district of new york in which federal prosecutors say that donald trump directed michael cohen to commit campaign finance crimes in the final weeks of the presidential campaign so that donald trump could defraud the american voters and win the american presidency. the federal prosecutors in new york say that was a conspiracy against the united states of america. and the criminals engaged in that conspiracy were michael cohen and donald t

he is not chairman neal. he is richie neal. he was richie neal to me when i was working on the staff of the senate finance policy, he was a member of the ways and means committee working on tax policy. most of you have never heard his voice because his approach to congressional life has always been about carefully doing the work and the homework, including carefully doing the work for his constituents in western massachusetts so he is always re-elected, but never seeking the limelight in washington. richie neal has had an open invitation to be on this program every night since the democrats won the house of representatives, and full disclosure, i think of him as a friend of mine, and he won't do this show because he doesn't want or need the attention. richie neal is the opposite of donald trump in every good way that you can be the opposite of donald trump. tonight donald trump has no idea what he is up against in richie neal. but i, for one, have no doubt who is going to win. richie neal is going to get donald trump's tax retu

neal is pointing to the policy. but look, let's keep it real. democrats are playing politics here, too, because chairman neal is catching it from the far right of his own party, who have for months, ever since democrats regained control of congress, have been pushing him to get these tax returns. some of those liberals even threatening to primary richard neal. so he's feeling the pressure here, too. >> the far left of his own party. donald trump has been claiming audit now since the very -- since the early stages of the campaign. his lawyers released a letter saying he was under audit, but they never released a letter directly or any documentation directly from the irs confirming this. and they've refused to do so. and again to all of these viewers who don't know this, even though we've said it a thousand times, we can ask the irs, but they don't have to respond to us. in fact, they can't talk about an individual's taxes. and when it comes to the president of the united states, his taxes and his tax returns are literally locked in a vault. jeff

. >> reporter: well, that's right, minutes ago the house ways and means chairman richard neal sent a letter to the irs commissioner requesting president donald trump's personal and business tax returns. obviously this is a huge step that the committee chairman has been trying to consider for months now. he made that step today making the official request to the irs. tonight house democrats drawing a new battle line with the president sending this formal request to the irs for donald trump's tax returns which he has for years refused. richard neal asking for six years of his tax returns from 2013 to 2018 as well as the tax returns of eight of his businesses. such as his golf course in betty lou jensen -- bedminster, new jersey. he said he would release his tax returns as other candidates have. but later refused. blaming the fact they were under audit. >> almost every lawyer says, you don't release your returns until the audit is complete. when the audit is complete, i'll do it. >> reporter: in the letter neal says the tax returns are needed to conduct oversight and so that congress ca

neal katyal, thank you.ant to tell our viewerious can catch this and the other segments we're doing with neal at msnbc.com/openingarguments. videos and more. check it out. >>> coming up, when we are back in 30 seconds, we have the tax record push for trump, and my breakdown on something very important that donald trump is doing with two nominations that has his own supporters rattled, when we're back in 30. k in 30.h. go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritin-d. while the leading allergy spray only relieves 6 symptoms, claritin-d relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure. claritin-d relieves more. [horn honks] man this is what i feel like when i wear regular shoes, cramped and uncomfortable. we can arrange a little upgrade. which is why i wear skechers... wide fit shoes. they have extra room throughout. they're like a luxury ride for my feet. try skechers wide fit shoes. >>> controversies continue to swirl around president trump's immigration policies and his approach to the mueller report.

that the irs deliver donald trump's tax returns to chairman neal by tomorrow.n the first hearing at a house appropriations subcommittee, secretary mnuchin said that there had been some communication between his treasury department and the white house about this issue before chairman neal actually sent his demand letter to the irs commissioner. >> i believe that the communication between our legal department and the white house general counsel was informational, that we obviously had read in the press that we were expecting this. i acknowledge that there were conversations. i am not briefed on the full extent of those conversations. >> at the second hearing with the house financial services committee, the treasury secretary said that he would comply with the law in responding to chairman neal's demand. >> i have said that i will comply with the law. i have not made a comment one way or the other whether we would supply the tax returns. i want to be very clear on that. we have said we will comply with the law. >> but what law then are you referring to? that's --

. >> neal? >> yes. i've been a defense lawyer in some cases, like death penalty cases, where i defend someone who's done some gruesome things. the strategy is is to trickle o the information to you sanitize it and put it in some context and tell the narrative first before the prosecution does. and here, that's really what barr has been doing. the difference is barr is the attorney general of the united states. he's not the president's personal lawyer. and, yes, i agree with you, nicolle, you know, that's the strategy that's going on with barr, but i don't think it's going to work at the end. there's too much that's devastating in this report about donald trump. i mean, from, as you say, his inner circle, i mean, don mcg n mcgahn, his top lawyer, saying i won't do this crazy "s" stuff and resigns. we didn't know that until this report. >> there is a lot to answer for in this. the president, obviously, has a lot of behavior to answer for. the attorney general made a choice this morning to make his stateme

. >> richard neal has given an ultimate to the commissioner of the irs. let's go to congressional reporter lauren fox who joins us now to break this story. what are you learning? >> reporter: we're learning that this committee chairman richard neal from ways and means he's doubling down on his request for six years of the president's personal and business tax returns. now what we know is that this is expected to go to court. we expect this to be a drawn out fight, but this is yet another letter from chairman neal basically saying you have until april 23rd to get back to me on whether or not you'll turn over the president's tax returns and in the letter, richard neal says and i quote, i expect a reply from the irs by 5:00 p.m. on april 23rd, 2u9d. please let me know if you fail to -- please know that, quote, if you fail to comply your failure will be interpreted as a denial of my request. so, again, this is really just upping the ante in this fight over the president's tax returns. the trump administration has been very clear that they are willing to go to

. >> rich: neal delivered his depend to the irs for those tax returns. but i learned something tonight. i learned something tonight about that law and i learned it from a former treasury secretary who is in a position to know these things. and that is former treasury secretary larry somers, the har harvard economics professor who was bill clinton's secretary, he served in the obama administration also. and he has identified an element of precedent in the treasury that makes this a much more interesting situation than even i thought. and he has words of advice including legal advice for the current treasury secretary about how to handle himself in this situation. because it is much electric year than even i realized until he wrote about it. he will be joining us tonight. at the end of the hour, what did barack obama do when he was being audited by the irs? what did he do with his tax returns? because barack obama was repeatedly audited by the irs. and you never heard him talk about it, but he was. and i'll tell you, at the end of this hour exactly the way

neal katyal, my special guest tonight. i want to tell viewers starting tonight, you can actually go to msnbc.com/openingarguments. msnbc.com/openingarguments to see this discussion and other legal series we're going to do here with neal on "the beat." >>> up ahead, eric holder goes lightning round and talks about this video of his hooping as well as his views of the 2020 candidates. that's only on our show tonight. >>> but first, blowing the whistle on what some are calling a national security scandal. 25 different security clearances in doubt. a top obama aide who dealt with that very issue joins me next. m? [ paper rustling ] exactly, nothing. they're completely different people, that's why they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual. they'll only pay for what they need! [ gargling ] [ coins hitting the desk ] yes, and they could save a ton. you've done it again, limu. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from

neal, thank you so much.really appreciate you joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> and you can go to msnbc.com/openingarguments for videos of all "the beat's" segments with neal. >>> just ahead, the new york attorney general launched a probe into the nra's money. obe y ...caused liver damage. epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. whatever your type, ask your doctor if epclusa is your kind of cure. i had the common type. mine was rare. epclusa has a 98% overall cure rate. i just found out about my hepatitis c. i knew for years. epclusa is only one pill, once a day, taken with or without food for 12 weeks. before starting epclusa, your doctor will test if you have had hepatitis b, which may flare up and could cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. tell your doctor if you have had hepatitis b other liver or kidney problems, hiv or other medical conditions... ...and all medicines you take, including herbal supplements. taking amiodarone with epclusa may cause a serious slowing of your

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neal is attempting to do has nothing to do with the russia investigation. it's indicative, it's evidence of, it's just a part of a pattern of behavior of opaqueness, and we talk about what's taking place at mar-a-lago. i introduced legislation to make those visitor logs available to the american public. wherever the president is, if he's conducting official business, the american public has a right to know who's attempting to influence him. they have fought these efforts. president obama made those records available. >> final question, if i can, because this just gets to the politics of this. as you know, some of the more recent polling has shown that americans, i don't know if losing interest is the right term, but there is less interest at least in investigating the president. even some waning interest in the ongoing mueller investigation. even as all these important questions hang out there. i just wonder, do you see less support among your constituents for making the next two years about investigating the president? are your constituents running out of

solicitor general neal katyal.s for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> i want to get to several things, but starting with this big news, your view of both the announcement of thursday as a time to get the redacted report, whether that raises any questions, and how you view that more broadly with mr. barr's approach thus far. >> color me skeptical. i think there is reasons to doubt barr's up and upness on this. so it's not just that he wrote a 19-page memo last summer saying that trump basically couldn't obstruct justice on a really flimsy legal theory, it's not just that he cleared the president of obstruction of justice in 48 hours when it took mueller two years and he didn't make that conclusion and said it does not exonerate, it's also things like his testimony last week where barr said like that there may have been, quote, unlawful spying going on, and this weekend that led the trump campaign to even do ads around that saying oh, this effectively deep state is engaged in unlawful spying. you know, there is th

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neal katyal is going to come somewhere around 10:30. he's got other stuff he's rushing from to get here. we'll get his reaction to where the trump war with congress stands on subpoenas. we're going to get his reaction to be what the mueller report really does say about obstruction of justice. and you will meet a republican coming up in our next segment who actually worked on the trump transition who is now has reaped his tipping point, the mueller report was that tipping point. he believes donald trump should be impeached. that's next. ♪ limu emu & doug mmm, exactly! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice! but uh, what's up with your partner? oh! we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance because no two people are alike, so... limu gets a little confused when he sees another bird that looks exactly like him. ya... he'll figure it out. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ bleech! aww! awww! ♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesies

neal is joining us on the phone about 30 seconds before he has the get on to a plane. thank you for making time for us. >> thank you. >> let me first ask you about this report from the report from "the times"ing releasing the findings to the white house before releasing it to anybody else. is that what the regulations spell out they should be doing? >> i think what i learned in this kind of law school for this kind of behavior is super extra stinky. there are very careful rules that have been around for generations for governing the white house, its contacts with the justice department in general, and that's because our country's founders understood the prosecution power is massive, both because the president's enemies can be indicted and the president's friends, their wrongs can be covered up. even in just an ordinary case, there is a very, very careful set of rules, and it's extremely rare to get the president any knowledge whatsoever of criminal cases. and this is that problem on steroids. the president is the subject of the investigation, and honestly, i've never h

neal katyal is going to come somewhere around 10:30. he's got other stuff he's rushing from to get here. we'll get his reaction to where the trump war with congress stands on subpoenas. we're going to get his reaction to be what the mueller report really does say about obstruction of justice. and you will meet a republican coming up in our next segment who actually worked on the trump transition who is now has reaped his tipping point, the mueller report was that tipping point. he believes donald trump should be impeached. that's next. (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even rooftop parking. strange forces at work? only if you're referring to gravity-and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ for people 50 and older colat average risk.ing honey have you seen my glasses? i've always had a knack for finding things... colon cancer, to be exact. and i find it noninvasively... no need for

richard neal said the day after the election he planned to make the move. he's taken several months to talk closely with how counsel and lawyers on the committee trying to build this case. >> thank you very much for explaining that. back with us now we have jeffrey toobin, laura coats and chris cillizza. so it is legal and the purview of the chairman of the house ways and means committee to request anyone's tax returns. they have done that. it should be legal. it is treasury secretary steve mnuchin who will decide do you see a brewing legal storm with this now? >> for certain. this is just a symbol of how many of these subpoena fights we are going to see over the next year and a half. i think what may be the most important factor in this is time. these legal fights are going to take time. whether the democrats get anything whether it's from the white house or hear from the internal revenue service is really going to be determined by how quickly the courts address the questions and the white house is going to be in no hurry. i think we are going to see a lot

let's start with you neal do you not think that this is a positive move if it manages to decrease hate speech on social media which is a problem isn't it. can i just set the record straight as it were about when you say the groups that have been bound are the biggest far right groups in britain well they may technically be but the truth is they are miniscule this is not a massive problem in britain and what this is really is an enormous buyout of virtue signalling by an appalling company facebook and instagram who are using it purely as. a fig leaf for the fact that frankly over the last few years they have an appallingly laughable policy about keeping evil people of social media you know we could go we could have been talking about a little girl who starved herself to death because of suicide groups are allowed through. openly on instagram for instance and they do nothing about it child porn. on. facebook and instagram and they do nothing about it islamic groups like our us and their followers have put up videos of be headings of the most awful awful awful things and they have done no

an attorney for the president writes quote if the irs acquieses to chairman richard neal's request it would set a dangerous precedent as secretary mnuchin recently told congress he's not aware there has ever been a request for an elected official's tax returns for good reason. it would be a gross abuse of power for the majority party to use tax returns as a weapon to attack. harass and intimidate the political opponents. once this pandora's box is open, the ensuing tit-for-tat would do lasting damage to our nation. it gives you an idea that the defensive posture the president's torjs aattorneys ar to take on this. the president's attorneys have been preparing for this for some time. they're willing to go all the way on this to the supreme court. we should point out two points for context here. first, the president himself broke with president -- he was the first candidate in more than 40 years to not release his tax returns to the american people. and the american people simply want to see them. take a look at this poll released in mid march. done by cnn. 67% of those asked say that t

personal and business taxes, that is what chairman neal is asking for. chuck grassley is his counterpart on the senate side, the republican chairman of the senate finance committee. both the finance committee and the ways and means committee oversee tax laws and grassley himself said if there is tax returns that are turned over to richard neal's committee he should see them as well but what grassley is making here is his argument that democrats are trying to weaponize the tax returns to attack the president. he's trying to undercut what rich neal has been saying, that they're argument the democrats are saying, this is a policy issue. they say they're asking for the tax returns to determine whether or not the current irs policy of auditing sitting presidents needs to be changed in any way, whether legislation is necessary. they say they're well within their legal rights and part of their oversight responsibilities to demand this information but as you could hear from chairman grassley on the senate side, you hear from republicans on the house and the sena

he sent that note to neal and me. i think it's important to sort of monitor conservative types who have an affection and passion for what the justice department is supposed to be. it's knost just the president's critics unsettled by that performance. obviously george is a critic of this president, but it's lifelong conservatives who feel gutted as the contamination of trumpism at the highest levels of the justice department. it's more ironic to see bar do it than it was to see whitacre incompetently do and jeff sessions recused, ran this justice department in a way that was less unsettling. >> i think it's not just the media commentators and people like that, it's also people in the justice department itself. a lot of people at the justice department are very strong republicans, but i've heard time and again, including this morning, from people saying what is our attorney general doing? this is not the department i stood up for. i dedicated my career to the rule of law. what is happening? >> would it be revolutionary

the history and the facts are on chairman neal's side and the side of congress. at the same time, you know, one of the things that we've always said we're going to do is we'll act as a check on this executive branch. something that republicans didn't do for two years and that's why the democrats got elected in november. >> okay. then you have the issue of the robert mueller report, the house judiciary committee subpoena for it saying it wants it unredacted. president trump just tweeted this morning about the mueller report saying he hasn't read it yet, but he has every right to do so. your reaction to why he would share those thoughts today. >> you know, president trump always tweets in the morning. i have no idea what's going on through his head. if we actually did, why would he claim that his father was born in germany when he was born in new york. there's something -- there's something wrong with the president. i have no idea why he sent those tweets out today. trouble must be coming. >> how troubled would you be if he or the white house had already laid its e

chairman neal raised a key point about oversight of the tax system. it explains why this step is necessary. the irs has a policy of auditing the tax returns of sitting presidents and vice presidents each year. it's not clear that system is effective. congress has an obligation to look into whether it's functioning properly and, if necessary, craft legislative solutions. let's also clear up a misconception on the issue. this is not an obscure law that has sat around gathering cobwebs. both committees that handle tax law, finance and ways and means, use the authority regularly. the committee's majority used it earlier this year to investigate certain tax exempt hospitals. this committee also used it between 2013 and 2015 during an investigation into the treatment of tax-exempt organizations. because this type of request is so routine, the treasury secretary long ago delegated responsibility for complying with it to the irs commissioner. irs commissioners in turn have delegated it to agency employees. these requests do not cross the treasury secretary's

neal's call. the american people have chosen donald trump as president. if you don't like it, in two years, you can vote against him. in the meantime, don't screw with him, let him try to be president. now, mr. neal is not in good faith. nobody believes he's in good faith. this is wildly dishonest. this is thoroughly in bad faith. and i don't blame the president for pushing back. there's no requirement that he turn over his taxes. if i were running for president, would i turn over my taxes? yeah. but there's no requirement. and trump said, i'm not going to turn over my taxes, they're being audited. the american people knew that when they voted for him or didn't vote for him. he won the election. and mr. neal, you know, i don't mean any disrespect, but he's not fooling anybody. he just wants to get these taxes to screw with the president. >> well, you say -- >> you can vote against him, but enough is enough. >> you said you don't mean any disrespect, but you said, "it must suck to be that dumb." let me just take the opportunity to say to chairman neal, if

as you say, congressman neal, chair neal has this authority. we reported on election night the sources in the house saying this was something they wanted to do in a deliberate way. they intended to do it but as you just said, congressman, we didn't know when when. we just got the letter moments ago after we started our broadcast. i want to read from this. for your analysis, you say this is the oversight power. there are republicans and other allies of the president who will say, well, tonight you're asking for more than just his personal tax returns, which is what candidates traditionally reveal. reading from the letter from your colleague, it's demanding six years of federal income tax returns for not only donald j. trump, but his revocable trust, djt holdings, djt holdings management member llc, dtm operations -- don't know what that is -- lfb acquisition corp., lfb acquisition lfc, lambing ton farm club, trump national golf club bedminster. walk us through the democrats' argument here that this law, which as i mentioned, has always existed,

neal smith.: george told detectives how he and shauna had befriended this neal smith. tried to help him get back on his feet. >> me and the wife kind of looked at him like our little charity case because he was a nice guy and was down on his luck. >> reporter: by now the detectives knew greyhound was an addict and a big drinker. so they asked george. >> was he a drug user? >> nothing. >> okay. alcohol? >> yes. he would drink alcohol, but not a lot. just a beer or two. >> just a beer or two every now and then? >> yeah. >> reporter: that raised the antenna a bit. in his interview with detectives, greyhound said he and george were great friends, worked out together, drank together a lot. but then, listen to this. as george kept talking, the man he said he knew as neal became noel. >> she said, "can noel help us out with this?" if it was something i wasn't good at, well, maybe noel is good at it because noel seemed to be good at everything i wasn't good at. >> reporter: remember, george said he'd nev

s mmissioner, neal asked that ax ye mr. trump's returns be provided il 23 and that if there is no response, "your failure will be interpreted as a denial of my request." treasury secretary steven mnuchin called the new deadlin"r ary" and earlier this week said he needed to consult with the justice department. white house acting chief of staff mick mulvaney has said democrats will "never" see the return a hacker group has posted the personal information of whatay an hundreds of federal agents police officers online. the information was apparently stolen from three local web sites affiliated with alumni of the f.b.i.'s national academy. those affected include members of the f.b.i., the secret servic capital police, and other federal agencies as well as local law enforcement in north carolina and florida. sudanese police said today that at least 16 people have been killed by stray bullets since the military ousted president omar al bashir on thursday. protesters in khartoum continued to demand a civilian government after gener

house ways and means committee chair richard neal says the law is on his side and the irs now has ten days to respond. cnn politics reporter lauren fox joining me right now, so lauren, the standoff between congress and the administration over the request is expected to launch an unprecedented legal battle. where are we now with this new letter? >> this is a new letter from the democratic chairman basically just making the request once again for six years of the president's personal and business tax returns. now, in this letter, richard neal is very clear, he's responding to treasury secretary steve mnuchin's letter from last week. this letter, of course, is addressed to the irs commissioner, but in the letter he says, quote, i am aware that concerns have been raised regarding my request and the authority of the committee. those concerns lack merit. he then goes on to say, i quote, expect a reply from the irs by 5:00 p.m. on april 23rd, 2019. please know that if you fail to comply, your failure will be interpreted as a denial of my request. now this, of course, is just setting the grou

. >> instead these characters have decided to just put their homey neal around.ess, trying to do great in his life -- >> with that on his head. and th's exthis video is.ti >> they do it more than once. >> you need clean your head now. >> the white rhino charges. ♪ >>> that's our show. thanks for watching. we'll see you >>> tonight, breaking news as we come on the air. the urgent hunt right now. 20 years after columbine, more than 20 schools locked up today. and tonight, authorities now describing this woman as armed and extremely change roudangero. we have late reporting tonight. >>> inside notre dame cathedral this evening. the new images of firefighters racing in to battle the flames. the spire seen around the world coming down right into the cathedral. and now tonight, the first images of the aftermath. the smoke rising around the altar. the cross still hanging. and now, we learn, 23 minutes went by after the first alarm. they could not find the fire. >>> the severe weather in this country. it hits tomorrow, right through good friday. moving right into the eas

neal is asking, there's a bunch of organizations which i'm sure no one has ever heard of. lexington farm club llc. lfb acquisitions. >> what is that? >> these are all trump organization companies. i'm not sure how many he has and what's being audited n what eed not. >> so you believe it? >> i don't know. i take the president at face value. if simone is willing to take congressman neal at face value that he's looking at legislative reform of this -- of 6103, i'm willing to take the president -- >> well, congressman neal is -- >> i'm just saying -- >> as someone points out there are questions about the president's taxes. late last year "the new york times" published an investigation reporting president trump engaged in dubious tax schemes in the '90s, including fraud. michael cohen said the president inflated and deflated his assets when it helped him. this is how ryan lizza put it. >> i think he probably just cheated on his taxes. i mean, let's be honest. he cheats at golf. he lies on a daily basis. what are the chances that donald trump over the last six years did not chea

it is very possible that we'll see richard neal, the chairman of the house ways and means committee,e very quickly, likely to issue a subpoena to get what he wants. and he wants six years of president trump's business and personal tax returns. but neal has, of course, throughout this process, been essentially very, very deliberate every step of the way. and we expect him to keep that up. most likely, what will play out, we will wait to see a formal response either from the treasury department or the irs, potentially move to issue one more last-ditch effort attempt, potentially even giving them a few more days to comply with that request. but there is absolutely no expectation that that will change anything at all and push the white house to comply in very -- in any way. very likely, this will just set up a subpoena battle, and then set up a very long and protracted legal battle. wolf? >> sunlen, the speaker, nancy pelosi, just spoke in new york at the time 100 event, was asked about impeachment. what did she say? >> this, of course, is the talk up here on capitol hill, in the members

david neal. thank you so much for your time we appreciate it. californians love the general sherman tree in sequoia and. >>national park in the redwoods another just such a symbol of our state certainly we want to preserve them, so we that your efforts and trying to learn more about them can help protect them for future generations, thanks again for you. okay that, let's take a look outside now talking about a boy summer like weather out there as we look at the embarcadero in the bay you know seen as a coy is what you see a couple palm out there and the sunshine how are you to pull out there today with the sequoia something sukhoi is your list in all know that how large they are so we want to keep them around you have been around over 1000 lot of that i have so that's quite a while. >>hey we've got we've got a lot of sunshine around the bay area today temperatures heating up very nicely outside today. if you've been looking forward to some heat. >>yeah we had a today indeed little haze out there inside the bay now looking rd a san francisco. we'

one reason i knew nothing about them the section richie neal is using is a controversial portion of thetax code that has never been challenged. once you challenge it, some other pieces start jumping out at you and it can get very scary for anyone messing around this. >> you are in your happy place. >> david cay johnson will join us tonight with very important new reporting that he has done on the legal risks that secretary of the treasury steven mnuchin is running tonight by delaying the irs handing over donald trump's tax returns to house ways and means committee chairman richard neal and that legal risk for secretary mnuchin includes the possibility of five years in prison. there are a lot of legal trip wires surrounding the treasury secretary tonight and the commissioner of the irs tonight. we'll get to all of that. also tonight, katie porter has done it again. you met congresswoman katie porter on there program. she has delivered some amazing performances in her five minutes in house committee hearings. she did it again. she asked a guy who makes $31 million a year if he could figur

neal's committee has made a request to the irs -- actually to secretary mnuchin, to deliver those taxll go before a judge, we think, after, as mr. neal has noted, he interprets the white house response as a refusal, which gives him a reason to go into court. >> got it. okay. so six house committees have opened trump probes. your committee is looking at hush money, trump businesses, security clearances. look, i think oversight is important, super important, but do you worry that this looks to votes are like your priorities are off, that you were elected to legislate and not just investigate? >> well, we can't exempt somebody from the law, right? we have a responsibility to do our jobs and that's what we're doing. i think that with the tax returns it may open up a whole menu of options for oversight, where to focus, but from my committee's standpoint, my subcommittee on national security, we think that the security clearance issue for mr. kushner and others is very, very, very important. we think the president has repeatedly overridden the basic process and procedure for granting nation

with respect to chairman neal's request, the law says the tax returns shall be provided. the law does not give anyone, not the treasury secretary, not a white house official, the power to interfere. the administration is re-- has response -- responded to chairman neal's request by launching a campaign of blatant political intimidation. i recall in the recent past when the process mattered greatly to both sides. here's the bottom line. chairman neal's request is based on legal authority our two committees exercise regularly in the process of obtaining and reviewing tax returns is routine. i believe this committee ought to make the same request for the president's tax returns. the committee must not punt on oversight and cede that role to the house. two other issues i'll touch on briefly, mr. chairman. one with respect to tax policy. americans who work for a live having long understood that the tax code is rigged to favor the most unfortunate. it's now becoming clear that tax enforcement is rigged in the same way. according to newly released day theark audit rate of corpora

and i know chairman neal. this is a guy, chairman neal, who has been criticized for being overly cautious in the matter. and i think he's been right on this, by the way. this is a legitimate area of public policy. and a legitimate inquiry. the law is clear. 6103 says he can order the tax return. it should be delivered to him. no lawyer for the president should interfere or direct the irs or treasury department to ignore the law. >> lel well let's get an answer now from a lawyer for the president. thank you both very much. we're going to bring in jay sekulow. you heard the congressman, jay, say, the law is pretty clear. i have read the law. it does say the irs shall turn over the returns after a legitimate request from the chairman. >> and the supreme court has said that you can do that if you have a legitimate legislative purpose. and with due respect to the congressman, he said there's been a lack of transparency. he thinks the president should have put forward his tax returns before he announced or when he a