deputy treasury secretary neal wolin is set to testify. yesterday, tea party groups protested outside irs locations in several u.s. cities. protestors in chicago had this to say: "it's the abuse of power. they feel they have the power to do this to these groups, and people are not being treated equally." "they give liberal groups such a wide berth. they don't even care about the liberal groups like media matters that give money to political causes. they say they're not political, but they really are political." meanwhile, on capitol hill, lawmakers grilled former irs commissioner doug shulman, who led the agency from 2008 to 2012. stabenow: "but why didn't you know when you were there?" shulman: "i- i agree that this is an issue that when someone spotted it, they should have run up the chain and they didn't. and why they didn't, i don't know." shulman contends he was not responsible for the controversy and regrets it happened when he was at the helm. as federal reserve chairman ben benarnke heads to capitol hill today to talk about the eco

again, i want to make it clear, you're saying nobody after that meeting between russell george and neal wolin, nobody told the irs that this irs ig investigation was going on? >> that's what the treasury department said and that's what i'm telling you. >> chris: the rise of the tea party, the application for tax exempt group was a big point in the wake of the citizens united ruling by the supreme court, a big issue for democrats. in september of 2010, max baucus, the democrat chair of senate finance called on the irs to investigate groups applying for tax exempt status. in 2007, senators urged the irs to beef up scrutiny. dan, weren't the marching orders pretty clear? you had a number of democrats, groups applying for tax exempt status, and you -- >> look at what the independent general said in the report, to congress on friday. there was no outside influences, other than this came directly from the irs. two, that was not necessarily based on political motivation. that's what the independent inspector general said. >> chris: you say "not necessarily based on." >> he said this was a management

lawmakers also questioned former irs commissioner douglas shulman and neal wolin, deputy secretary of the treasury department. fed chairman ben bernanke's day on capitol hill turned into a major market mover. bernanke presented this statement wednesday to lawmakers: "a premature tightening of monetary policy could lead interest rates to rise temporarily but would also carry a substantial risk of slowing or ending the economic recovery." those comments reassured wall street that quantative easing would continue, which sent the dow soaring up 155 points. stocks later sold off when bernanke mentioned during q & a with a congressmen the fed's bond-buying program could end in the next few months depending on economic data. damage from the devastating tornado that hit oklahoma could exceed $2 billion. that figure comes from the oklahoma insurance department, which is still assessing the destruction. between 12,000 and 13,000 homes were damaged within the 17-mile-long disaster zone. it is still unknown how many people have been left homeless. president obama will travel to the disaster area

i may have misused the word investigation it was an audit that we are engaging in. >> neal wolin, at my college is buddha, deputy secretary of the treasure was briefed in june of 2012. i've just heard two people at the tables a bit didn't briefing. mr. george, did you brief awarded part of the investigation team briefed the deputy secretary of the treasury? >> i personally, again, they have brought to deputy secretary's one's attention the fact that we are engaging in this audit. and -- >> did that briefing cover the details of the scope of your investigation? >> it did not. it was other than to describe the nature of the audit, and that was the extent of it because there were other matters were discussing. >> mr. george, your investigation states that counsel was briefed in august 111 of the practice at the country. was that the irs council or was it the treasury general counsel? >> actually, sir, it was in june, june 42012. again, in terms of a regular setting that i have with a meeting i should say that i had with the general counsel of the department of the treasury. i know you'r

. >> brown: the committee also heard from deputy treasury secretary neal wolin.said what happened at the i.r.s. was inexcusable, but no one at treasury was involved. today's hearing came to an end after six hours, but there's is no end in sight to the three congressional investigations under way. more hearings are expected after the memorial day recess. even as these hearings unfold to find out exactly what happened at the i.r.s., there's continuing confusion about the tax laws and regulations at the heart of the matter: who qualifies for tax-exempt status? how is that determined? and other questions we'll try to get at now with duke university law school professor richard schmalbeck. he's a former tax attorney and kim barker. she's a reporter with pro publica. at the history. so take us back. how did it come to be that groups can seek tax-exempt status in the first place? >> it's a very good question, and nobody is entirely sure even how social welfare nonprofits came about in the first place. all we know is that as parof the revenue act of 1913, congress create

subsequently alerted the general counsel join forces and subsequently alerted the deputy secretary neal wolin about this matter. and then upon the assumption and into the position i mentioned it to secretary lew." >> that was march 2013. i was confirmed on february 27. it is important to note that the fact the ongoing audit was not a secret. it was publicly posted on the inspector general's website. >> it was the subject of numerous newspaper articles. >> there was just the fact of the audit being undertaken. >> there was specific information that even democratic legislators have leaned on the administration to conduct investigations. >> the time of the gentleman has expired. the chair recognizes the gentlemen from new york. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to finish off where i attended on my opening statement, because we've got to make sure that we tighten up. i want to make sure that we don't lose the fact that some people abuse their tactics and status. i stated i had a specific example in mind and i talked about not only the 501 (c)(3) exemption required to be tax- exempt under section

but i want to know, for example, when neal wolin in the treasury council got the information the irs was being investigated for targeting groups, did they tell timothy geithner. did geithner tell the white house counsel who learned later but told the chief of staff but they wouldn't tell the president. i think you have to narrow down on all these key individuals, in the irs, in the upper echelons of the treasury, and in the upper echelons of the white house. that's why i suspect at some point you're going to need a special counsel. >> i think a special counsel is something you do when there is a prosecutorial role. we need an independent investigation, outside the role of congress, outside the irs, to have an independent investigator to find out what took place. maybe give that person subpoena power. >> do you give grand jury power? >> i don't know. that goes into prosecutorial function. no allegation of criminal wrong-doing. no one has suggested that. the big issue is the 501(c)(4) status and it's a very complicated role in defining what this is. but you kind of skated over the whol

. >> do you know whether or not deputy secretary neal wolin, if the advice to anyone about the investigationthat time? >> over the last few days we have made clear that there were appropriate conversations among staff where the fact of an investigation was clear and subsequently in the last few , the fat inorts them or the reports themselves were available, but there was conversation. there was no action taken by anyone in the treasury department in any way interfere with the inspector general's report. that was the number one goal. >> did the contact the irs commissioner? --kyburz ma >> that there were conversations as appropriate for people who needed to understand there was an investigation? correct the time of the gentleman has expired. the gentleman from north carolina for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and i thank mr. lew for being here. let me turn our attention to fsoc, because i thought that's what this hearing was about. not the internal revenue service. >> that's right. >> one of the things you all have been doing, according to your testimony is designating some financi

. >> do you know whether or not deputy secretary neal wolin, if the advice to anyone about the investigationthat time? >> over the last few days we have made clear that there were appropriate conversations among staff where the fact of an investigation was clear and subsequently in the last few weeks as reports, the fact in them or the reports themselves were available, but there was conversation. there was no action taken by anyone in the treasury department in any way interfere with the inspector general's report. that was the number one goal. >> did the contact the irs commissioner? >> that there were conversations as appropriate for people who needed to understand there was an investigation? >> the time of the gentleman has expired. the gentleman from north carolina for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and i thank mr. lew for being here. let me turn our attention to fsoc, because i thought that's what this hearing was about. i assume not the internal revenue service. some financial institutions as particularly significant to the >> one of the things you all have been doing, acco