you have to remember, nehru remember, nehru and jenna had known each other for 30 years. the fathers had been good friends, they argued with each other, they had friends in common. you think that they could have found common ground, even their personal relations grew very bitter over this time. >> so in a moment we'll open it up and ask questions. i wonder now to close this part of the conversation and to think about history. i had the pleasure of interviewing general gordon sullivan, the chair of the board of trustees at the university a few weeks ago, he impressed on me how important it was for him and nor rich to get this history major and a huge liberal and i use the word liberal in the classical sense, education. he said without an understanding of history, this a very little that you can do as far as making sound decisions at the top levels of any chain of command. and so i wanted to take us forward now. we spent trillions of dollars in the strongest army in the world, a stake in every hill that we wanted it to, but we have not been able to prevail against an enemy,

again, again, nehru knew this was a danger. it's interesting about ten years before 1937 there's a younger man and was receiving all this and he wrote an essay that warred against the dangers of a leader like him becoming a dictator that letting the stuff go to his head and that the party needed to be wary of this in the country needed to be wary of this and not allowed to happen. he knew it it was a danger but he still let it happen. jenna was the same way. it had been fighting for recognition for years and years and all of a sudden once he started promoting pakistan hundreds of thousands of people come to his rallies and he was surrounded by guards waving swords in uniform and he loved it. now batten was the vein of all three. he counted the ribbon on his uniform and spent his summer when the death squads were forming certain look working out with the flags would look like that they would use on independence day. kind of pomp circumstances why he was there. so you do have to worry, have your leader you have to have responsibi

this group was led by nehru's nephew. this sought to shift the elite big projects, which according to the industrial policy would end up being in the industrial sector in the iraqi off -- offloaded to american financing. he needed what he called free money to relieve pressure on foreign exchange. one wonders who can be against free money. the proposal acknowledged such a good come only from the west since the soviet union faced its own problem with hard currency reserves. it even called for steering clear of future soviet aided projects because they would hinder efforts to obtain this free money from united states. to take a different example from outside india, but a group of colombian landlords and business owners who in the account brilliantly deployed david lilienthal's rhetoric of democratic development for a power grab with profound effect not just the government in columbia but i government itself. narrow arguments of practicalities of a contained within the domestic policies as well as geopolitics, and the practic

nehru was a cambridge socialist. he did not believe in any of this hindu mumbo-jumbo.t wasn't so it wasn't about religion for, them. it was a get about territory, about community, it, it was fear that was driving them. they were afraid that they were going to be another community was going to be massacred. the other thing that's interesting to remember to hisot the strongest drive to create pakistan was not in the areas that eventually became pakistan. in northwestern northeastern india where muslims are majority, they were majority, they were in power, they did not have to fear what happened after the british left. it was muslims in central india, southern india, other places who really push the idea of pakistan. some of them moved when it was created, many others did not. many indian muslims never wanted pakistan to be created at all and live in india. >> so just a quick, personal anecdote on this issue of how important a lot of muslims felt about not creating another country called pakistan, so my dad at that time

its adherents in india included not just prime minister nehru, u.s. engineeric working for general electric. it is not just ministers come fromr bureaucrats, or tropic leaders, but those who exceeded their official positions. it was saidtoken, that they would have the title of the honorary assistant, which might of rank a hypothetical advisor for traditional medicine. from that modest perch though, an individual is responsible as any for an nun sitting economic policy will did the fact he was enunciating economic policy this bike the fact that he was a statistician. it came from a network of associations with economists and planners, expanding from downtown moscow to bell labs in the wilds of northern new jersey. he energetically promoted into a soviet ties. than 350 pages of --respondence to and about as he tries to become a cultural entre nor. despite an affinity for soviet officials, he established many context throughout europe and the united states. fact soels were in extensive the institute's annual report routinely devoted three or four full pa