when we come back, we are talking about the macro story with neil ferguson.that the world is sleep walking into an era of political and a economic turbulence, hoover institution senior fellow neil ferguson is here. he'll be joining us after the break. ♪ because it's a beautiful day. ♪ i may be close to retirement but i'm as busy as ever. careful now. nice! you got it. and thanks to voya, i'm confident about my future. oh dad, the twins are now... ...vegan. i know, i got 'em some of those plant burgers. nice! nice! yeah. voya provides guidance for the right investments and helps me be prepared for unexpected events. they make me feel like i've got it all under control. because i do. ok, that was awesome. voya. be confident to and through retirement. ♪ the new 2023 gmc sierra at4x is equipped to conquer the great outdoors... ...or the great indoors. welcome to the peak of premium off-roading. the new 2023 gmc sierra at4x. gmc. we are professional grade ♪ choosing miracle-ear was a great decision. like when i decided to host family movie nights. miracle-ear made

so they used force then and of course they used force during code it professor neil ferguson. the famous modeler said in an interview in december 2021. when the 1st lockdown started in china, he's referring of course to march 2020. but in 20 would when he looked back on it and he said, we didn't think we could do this kind of stuff in europe. but then we saw china and then italy do it and we realized we could write. so that fleet, so the authoritarianism and the dictate, tauriel steak power is, has been used and they are psychologically prepared to use including for energy shortages in switzerland for example. you are already being invited to denounce your neighbor in terms of the heating. but the real danger i would say, i mean that is already a very major danger. but the real danger is also the horizontal aspects of totality . which unfortunately, are running already at full speed. by that i mean the tendency of citizens on the horizontal level to go along with the mass psychosis with what my testers, nichols, the math psychosis, to denounce each other as they did during co

joining us right now, neil ferguson from the hoover institution. he was in kyiv earlier this month. is your assessment of the language that putin is using and the recruiting efforts that he's trying to launch and what happens next here? >> martha, i think these are signs of desperation on the part of a dictator who knows that his gamble has failed. this was a war that putin had to win pretty quickly. but we're well into month seven and it's all unraveling. that is why he's having to engage in what he calls a partial mobilization. that's why he's once again rattling his nuclear saber. he's losing this war. i must say my impression on the basis of some fascinating days in kyiv is the ukrainians are winning this war, can win this war and that, of course, is why putin is looking not only desperate but isolated on the international stage. >> what about the u.s. role? i spoke with ned price at the state department at the top of the show. you know, we went back and force on the himars and what a difference they have played because they have allowed the ukrainians to take out targets that t