neil katyal knows the judge who will be hearing the case. l know will be hearing the case ieves s, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. that's some bad luck brian. and i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. so today is your lucky...day [crash] so today is your lucky...day for a great low rate, go with the general. sleepovers just aren't what they used to be. [crash] so today is your lucky...day a house full of screens? basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history. that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. >>> it goes without saying what we are up to tonight, following the breaking news former president donald trump indicted for the third time this y

neil katyal, trump's first amendment rights. is jack smith trying to take away his first amendment rights? >> trump is right, he is the first politician, or at least the first president to be accused of several serious federal felonies. they're two different indictments. the idea that this has to do with his first amendment rights is bogus through and through. i think the jack smith debunked it in a filing earlier this week before judge chutkan. what he said is, i'm not trying to undermine your first amendment rights. you're like to speak, but there's a difference between speaking and intimidating witnesses. trump was warned about this, lawrence, at his arraignment. an extraordinary moment last week with the judge. the judge said, look, you can't go and try to influence jurors, things like that. he said he understood. and then within 24 hours, here is threatening basically intimidating witnesses might, pence, saying if you come after me, oh come after you to the whole world and so on. this isn't the way in any other criminal tri

i want to pull in neil katyal on the legal aspects of this.se, as a narrator it's completely incoherent, but it seems to reveal this legal twister that rudy is engaged in if full view of the press and public seems like a pretty blatant tell that he's really racking up the legal exposure and legal problems. >> that's exactly right, nicole. it's a giuliani versus giuliani, and you know, he's got a technical legal argument that he admitted he was lying only for the purposes that proceeding last month and they can strictly be used against them in the criminal prosecution, but remember, rudy is out there in the cameras and he's not talking in the court. he's talking to the public and it's absolutely admissible in trying to understand what rudy's coherence defense is. he doesn't have one and whatever he said today contradicts what he told the court last month and so he may have a strict legal argument, but in terms of the court of public opinion and in terms one of these guy who use to be one our most respected mayors and one of our most respected p

joining us now is neil katyal, former acting u.s. is in general and -- law school. he has 50 -- legal analyst and host of the podcast courtside with new cattle. neil, i wanted the country's foremost appeals practitioner to start us off this evening because when i saw, when i read the transcript, i saw right there that john lauro was making in effect writing the first lines of the appeal if donald trump is convicted in this case. we will do you make of that as an appeal issue? the fact that they have only have seven months to prepare trout, that trump was denied adequate counsel? it certainly, lawrence, an appeal issue. it's just not a very good one, ultimately. as you mentioned, i used to run all the federal governments appeals and defend prosecutions when i have worked at the solicitor general's office and these kinds of appeals are file day in, day out. the routinely rejected every time. and i think there's a very important principle which is a need for a speedy trial because justice delayed is justice denied. these kinds of tricks to try to delay things don't go o

neil katyal, he will join us. and so we have many more details of this to explore. it is a rich indictment. >> indeed, thanks my friend. >> thank you, rachel, thank you. your two on us. those words appear in quotation marks and the special prosecutor jack smith's newest indictment, the united states of america versus donald j trump. the witness who spoke those words in the grand jury, in his testimony, what is obviously donald trump's vice president mike pence. that is the only way that those words could appear in quotation marks, on page 33 of today's indictment. you're too honest page 33 contains a description of, quote, several private phone calls in late december 2020 and early january between the president and vice president at the united states. the only person who could possibly have told jack smith and the grand jury about those phone calls is mike pence. the january six committee invited mike pence to testify, but he refused. the january six committee did not bother to issue a statement to mike pence since they knew he would ignore it, just as some other el

neil katyal is the former acting usa -- the former fbi general counsel.esses. one of the codefendants, they do decide to make a deal with prosecutors. how does that actually work? as a target of all of that, trump? or could the target also the other high level codefendants? >> in terms of the targets it could be both. you are in for penny, in for a pound. you cannot pick and choose. if you cooperate, you have to tell the truth. the good, the bad, everything you know. whether it is about yourself or any other crime that anyone else committed. you cannot say, by the, way i'm gonna tell you about my friends. i'm gonna leave that out but i will tell you about my flaws. you also have to cooperate fully at the state and federal level. this is where fani willis and jack smith's aligned their interest. jack smith is really helped, for the reasons you stated, by fani willis and charges. those are not part noble. there is an extra weight on people, like rudy giuliani mark meadows, jeff clark. those people are now feeling the pressure to cooperate. because they cann

unexplored thoughts that he is not shared on tv already, and i will bet you he does as i'm sure does neil katyal, he will join us. and so we have many more details of this to explore. it is a rich indictment. >> indeed, thanks my friend. >> thank you, rachel, thank you. your two on us. those words appear in quotation marks and the special prosecutor jack smith's newest indictment, the united states of america versus donald j trump. the witness who spoke those words in the grand jury, in his testimony, what is obviously donald trump's vice president mike pence. that is the only way that those words could appear in quotation marks, on page 33 of today's indictment. you're too honest page 33 contains a description of, quote, several private phone calls in late december 2020 and early january between the president and vice

. >> anand, this morning, neil katyal wrote a persuasive argument in "the new york times" about the neederas in the courtroom. he quoted justice brandeis, who said,sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." do you agree, cameras should be in the courtroom? also, i'd love to get your view from 30,000 feet on what you saw yesterday. >> yeah, i mean, 247 summers ago, this country started with the phrase, "all men are created equal." we've done better and worse jobs of living up to that at different moments in our history and on different issues. i think to see a former president of the united states arraigned, like anyone else, as others were pointing out, is a good moment. one of those moments where we are living up to that notion that people are equal at birth and equal even if they have reached a lot of money and power. i think when it comes to cameras, it's incredibly important for the public to see as much of this as possible, unfiltered. because we have this problem of lies and disinformation that you were talking about at the bottom of the last hour. and the more things are m

solicitor general neal katyal, glenn kirschner and katie phang. neilt's start with the arraignment and what happens next. did we get a glimpse yesterday into how team trump is expecting to handle the case? >> yeah, absolutely. i think we did in two senses, one is the delay tactics that they want to use, one of trump's attorneys said outside the courtroom that jack smith has had three and a half years to investigate this case, so they should get three and a half years. it doesn't quite work that way. i mean, there's several problems with that. i mean, one is three and a half years ago was like january of 2020, well before the election. so nobody was investigating trump at that point in time. but, you know, more generally, there is no such symmetry rule and in deed the system would grind to a halt if there was. i don't think that these delay tactics are going to work. they might work better in florida in the stolen documents case where you have classified information and things like that, but not here. the other thing i think we heard a lot of yesterday

katyal, former acting u.s. attorney general and host of the podcast courtside with neil castillo. andrew weizmann, i want to go to the conditions imposed on donald trump and have we see a possible violation of those conditions tonight when he called fani willis a left wing prosecutor, that sort of thing? is there some point in donald trump's language about the district attorney that obstructs the administration of justice? >> if i were looking for prior language that violates the letter and spirit of the rules to are not in place in georgia, as well as nbc, it would be if you come after me, i come after you, and as you noted, lawrence, telling the witness going into the grand jury that he should not obey a lawful grand jury subpoena. that, by the way, is a crime. you cannot cancel a crime, whether it's at the conditions in d.c. or in georgia. i do think that the fate of donald trump is in his hands. the reason he is under indictment is because of choices he made. he chose to commit crimes that led to the d.c. indictment. he chose to take documents, retain them and not return them,