but what i learned from watching neil kinnock and maggie.ggie thatcher is that the when you're on screen and when you're at a conference, it doesn't necessarily translate to you in your living room. and it's really interesting to see what lands with an audience. and so that's what that's what gave me my passion. >> time is up. that's our time is up. i love your book, by the way. let's have a look at that. yeah. goodbye, glossy rama, that's esther san hope. but coming up next, we've got versus it's wsfime it's time for right versus left . it's time for right versus left. with emma and lloyd this week we've seen some alarming figures. population explosion for the past 20 odd years. emma. every single political party when it comes to general elections, they promise to sort out immigration problems. they're going to cap it to the tens of thousands. what's happening over the last 2 or 3 years has got even worse under the conservatives. they're not listening to the great british public. why do they keep doing it? >> what is going on? i think that b