. >> bob swanson's story gets folded into the story of neil raymer who is the founder of the office of technology licensing at stanford i was telling you about and the birth of the biotech industry is very very interesting in the way the overlap happens is that the patent for recombinant dna, the whole idea to even patent that came from neil raymer who would be the first to tell you he was just a chemical engineer. he had no idea what the heck it meant to build anything in this whole universe. he talked about going on vacation like a 4-pound book about like biology 101 and, so neil nonetheless fell like this technology could be the beginning of something huge. he actually drew that analogy to the semiconductor industry, and he had to really really battle and work through the question of , what is the object and the purpose of a university. i mean, how you have a place whose raison d'Être is into-- is to increase the public knowledge and at the same time patent some of your ideas and how do you decide whose ideas he patent and how do you make sure faculty doesn't end up being pushed in