what do you think he was saying about the neocons?i think he was saying -- >> i'm talking to tom ricks now. >> i think he was saying if you want to know where romney is going to be going with foreign policy, look to the people around him. what you see is a lot of people who are the neoconservatives who did advise going into iraq. so he's saying effectively if you like the war in iraq, romney is your guy. >> it just seems -- without being in any way comical about, because it's nothing to laugh about, people die in wars, there's always a war that the neocons are looking forward to. they're always pushing -- they never settle down and say let's take time out for a decade without a war, and now it's iran. we all know that neither party can go to war, but the way they go to war, what conditions they set and how they deal with the consequences are really critical, and it seems to me the president is more to be trusted for understanding the consequences, tom ricks. >> powell was kind of an eisenhower republican. guess what? so is barack obam

that's why he was making those tough severely conservative -- some of the neocons want to hear it. >>ere is the question though. beau, i don't know if you can handle this at all because you have a partisan view obviously with your dad running as dv. i ha i have heard from top guys that the neocons, the real ideologue that is are backing romney don't know whether he's a fellow ideologue or a complete pragmatic guy who could go any direction on iran or any these issues including the west bank. >> it's convenient they leak that notion now. >> yes. >> this is a while ago but you do. you think it's convenient -- >> i think it's convenient for them so sow confusion. this is a case where their strongest case for mitt romney is that we don't know what he really believes. >> yes. >> beau, get in here. you run against a right winger on foreign policy or a pragmatist who is a flip-flopper. >> he hired the same people who got us into the mess we got into ten years ago. john bolten, dan senor who had one of the toughest diplomatic missions. so these are the people he's retained that we have to --

in some places, he has a former bush advisers who are real and neocons. in others, they're much more moderate and really believed international institutions, will want to empower natural institutions. we have not seen where he comes down and we're not sure whether he is a neocon or a realist or aim moderates. he keeps giving these speeches, but he does not nail it down. we're trying to figure out him as he does. >> maybe we will find out more in net foreign policy debate. the about this campaign, u.s. policies towards china has been a point against -- between the candidates. congressional committees called for to chinese telecommunications companies to be banned from the american market. they pose a security threats because they cannot be trusted to be free of chinese state interest. the companies denied the charges. >> congressional officials have been investigating the two huge chinese telecommunications companies for a year. now the house intelligence committee has alleged that they may be spying and not to be trusted. >> they see to expand in the unit

the neocons must not be happy with that new language.t's the case that the country is weary of war. he knows if he's going to win over the undecideds left in the battleground states, he can't come across like someone who is going to jump into more foreign entanglements. it's an untenable political position at this point. >> i just want to get to iran on this political question, the politics of this thing. i don't know who is more likely to strike at iran if it looks like they're getting close to having a weapon. i wouldn't put it past obama. i think he knows it's essential we do something to prevent that from happening. we have no idea how much of a hair trigger they would have in using it. we have no idea. they're not even like the pakistanis, who are scary enough. it seems to me if you're calculating this election who is most likely to strike, i would do it this way. i would say who is most likely to do it in a way that considers the consequences, they're ready for the reaction, the blowout that's going to come next. we better damn wel

it's the neocons. we saw where that got us.s imported a bunch of neocons because that is the republican idealistic alternative right now. you have this tension between what romney's instincts seem to be which are fairly sensible but then he has no difference from obama and introducing a criticism brings us back to the days of the neocons being dominant in the pentagon. >> martin, if i may -- >> go ahead. >> i think it's important to underscore what is a difference. if governor romney is going to follow a kneow cons, a majority of americans, if you go down the line, those are not the policies americans want. even on an issue like iran -- >> but you never tells you the truth. this is serious, karen. six months ago he was the most aggressive individual out of all the candidates talking up a potential what i thought was a potential invasion of iran, but now he doesn't want anything to do with that. how can you believe that? >> i think that's why the president really has to try to press him to point out he doesn't have -- in the cas

where are the neocons? romney conceded the point on the benghazi, on egypt, on syria.nceded the point on iran. >> and on pakistan where he even said he wouldn't withhold any aid. >> whoa, whoa, whoa, i'm not finished yet. he conceded the point on iraq and the troop strength, on osama bin laden, on every major flash point in the middle east he conceded the point in a way that the neocons have consistently criticized this president, so why are the neocons giving him a pass right now? and my theory is because they believe romney is a marionette who will do anything they want him to do once he gets into the white house, and that again i think is something that is just not going to wash with the american people over the next two weeks. >> extraordinary. i totally agree with that. julian epstein, jonathan capehart, and jonathan alter, thank you all very much. >>> as we go to break, live pictures from ohio and nevada, both candidates pressing their respective cases with just two weeks to go until election day. do stay with us. ♪ i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, mu

he joined the neocon crowds.e says he's going to sit down as if he's some virgin politically when he's cut all these deals ahead of time. can you believe he's going to be mr. bipartisan after being such a severe conservative all these months getting the nomination? >> no, and on the campaign trail he said so many conflicting things. you really can't look at his words, but what you can look at is how he governed. i think he probably set a record. he vetoed 800 either pieces of legislation, twice what his republican predecessor did, bill weld, who let people on that elevator while he was governor for almost eight years. you know, 800 vetoes. these were not just small things. these were things like vetoing the minimum wage, vetoing access to contraceptive rights. sometimes they were petty and partisan. vetoing a special bill that would have helped a disabled cop. vetoing money that would have paid for kosher meals for elderly people in nursing homes. 800 vetoes and i think something like 750 vetoes were overridden b

we don't want to go backwards to the neocon right-wing extreme policies that got us into trouble in iraq in the first place and you remember that debate very, very well, reverend al. >> yes. >> and you've seen the damage that it's done throughout the region. we don't want to go backwards. we need to go forwards with the experience and strength and the judgment that president obama has exhibited. >> i saw in the second debate the president was visibly offended and said so when the suggestion was made that ambassador rice or anyone, as he said on his team, did anything but was what was responsible in terms of protecting american lives. now that "the washington post" has just revealed the cia talking points and it is clear that secretary rice was saying what the cia had given her, be do you think that will change the position of mr. romney and his team and his vice presidential candidate or do you think they are going to continue this when we're dealing with the loss of four american lives and we were given that information by the cia and we were dealing in the middle of this tragedy? >> i'

and then you have the neocons. that's the tension within the republicans. romney as president-elect to have to resolve. i also think last night what's interesting is there were greater differences between romney and george w. bush. and romney and barack obama. he drove through clear lines i'm not looking to do another afghanistan. i see no military role for syria. that's a repudiation of some of the democratizing policies of george w. bush. >> eliot: right. >> to romney's credit, moving toward an area where he recognizes the value of hard power but also the value of the soft power. >> eliot: this would have been called a pivot. would unkindly be called lack of principle or strategic world view because the real tension is between mitt romney last night and mitt romney two weeks ago. to talk about syria just for a minute when mitt romney said he doesn't want to do a no-fly zone. he doesn't want to have boots on the ground. he's really completely embracing the president's policy in the area where there's been rather uniform criticism. that was the one that was

. >> the neocon said that monday was the day that pinnacle performing died. [laughter] -- that political performing died. [laughter] whatat do you think? >> i don't know about what john was saying, but my view last treat -- i know that mark keeps very close trackck to what i say -- i felt that this conspiracy stuff about the polls was ridiculous. you can make an argument that the polls are using a model of the electorore of the wrong year. i dodon't even acceptpt that. the pos are almost unerring i their curacy in the primary and the general election. but it was a real switch. it was a real change. the only quibble i have with mark is, you know that ledge where the liberals -- we were on back floor last week and we were happy to vacate. [laughter] >>>> the view is fantastic from their. >> on cooking the books, what about the charge that the 7.8% unemployedment number was cooked? >> i think that the obama-romne debate, romney came across as somebody witsome stature and you cou visualize him in the white house. fast f forward to the debate between paul ryan and

. >> the columnist, neocon, he said monday was the day political polling died. [laughter] what do you think? >> i dunno about what to john was saying. but my view last week -- i know mark keeps very close track of what i say -- i felt that this conspiracy stuff about the polls was ridiculous. you can make an argument that the polls are using a model of the electorate of the wrong year. that.t even accepted the polls are almost unerring in their accuracy in the primary and in the general election. but it was a real switch. it was a real change. the only quibble would have wet mark is that, you know that led where the liberals were on what for? we were on that floor the week before and we were happy to vacate it. [laughter] >> the space is available. >> the view is fantastic. >> on cooking the books, what about the 7.8% unemployment ever ked?g coaxeo >> the thing that really affected the obama-romney debate was that romney came across as somebody with some stature. you could really visualize him in the white house. fast forward to the debate between paul ryan and

they're bloggers and the american enterprise institute, the most neocon organization on the planet.thoughts. >> remember, it's not even $5 trillion in deductions have to take away, it's the $2 trillion in additional defense spending that they have to balance off, and there aren't $7 trillion worth of deductions even if you swept away mortgage interest and everything else. it just doesn't add up. >> i think you're picking a point, governor. just kidding. it's so obvious. we only have a moment but i know the late arlen specter just died this weekend. he was such a big part of my life, your life, but you were a close friend of arlen's. tell me about him as a guy. >> well, an incredible person. first of all, perhaps the last independent moderate in the republican party. he's gone, and he left behind a great legacy of service to pennsylvania, chris, but an amazing guy. he was so tenacious and had such strong will about everything he did, that we all believed he beat cancer twice. we all believed he was going to beat it a third time. we were wrong this time, but arlen specter's will and h

. >> but your party has gotten so much domination by the tea party people and the neocons, you have to sign down here no taxes. >> it doesn't matter what you sign. >> it doesn't? >> at this stage of the game, it didn't matter. all those folks can vote for romney and he'll need the conservative democrats, those independents. >> i have a theory by the way people hate obama so much on the right cynthia and perhaps center right, they hate him so much that they're willing to have this guy go to the center, as long as he wins. your thoughts? >> that's absolutely true, chris, because people like karl rove and billy crystal know that mitt romney is an empty suit and they can push him around if he wins the presidency. >> oh. >> you know that old saying, if you stan for nothing, you won't stand for anything. well, romney doesn't stand for anything. he doesn't really have any values or principles that he really believes in except he really wants to be president. that's why we saw that new slit version of the romney-bot on wednesday night. this romneybot, they worked on him in the factory for hour

president's national plan and in this campaign he made all kinds of promises to the right whether it's the neocons or the religious right, who is the the real romney. he was so effervescent and exciting and winning on his personality. is this the real guy unleashed from these commitments. >> i don't want to be unkind but think it was the real romney, in the sense of his political career, going back to massachusetts and earlier, mitt romney has been able to change his position, renounce his position and do whatever he feels is necessary to meet the next group of voters right in front of him. look what he did about 47%. he said the other night in fox news to shawn habity, i didn't mean any of that or -- sean hannity, i didn't see any of that. and hurt him instead of saying let me explain what i meant to say, i said it ineloquently, but i think people are gaming the system -- i didn't mean any of that. chris: below what he is offering that day, that week, what's there? what's the hard-core of mitt romney? >> first of all, we know he's a very competitive guy and the best moments he's had the past year

all of a sudden neocons think that doesn't matter. >> that is not the case. >> that will be an overstatement of what they have accomplished in dealing with al- qaida, and we all know it. it's all over the place, as pat said. you follow any of the real intelligence reports now from many currents and they will tell you that. so that's the only thing that's being said and what susan rice said, if i may say was misleading. maybe she didn't know it, maybe nobody knew it. >> how could she not know it? >> i'm not going to answer that question because i don't have an answer to that question. >> why would she mislead? >> there's nothing to gain on it. >> it's in the direction of the white house. >> i don't think she lied, john. >> they're not going to send her out there with a story that's false. >> it shows incompetence on the part of the intelligence community that they didn't know two lays later -- two days later? >> hillary's answers have been perfect. >> that's her ambassador and the president's ambassador, why did she not go out? >> the president's ambassador, she's as close an adviser and frie

been comfortable with most of the things romney has said in the area of foreign policy, that the neocons have had a more dominant voice. the question is, where is the real romney, if elected, would he go back toward the scowcroft view of foreign policy or the neocons? >> with 26 days to go, what would you project is the electoral vote for the winner? many electoral votes? 270 is needed to win. >> 304 obama. >> i will not say who. i will say 295. >> 305, 320, i think there will be a tipping point. there will be a clear winner. it will be an early tonight. as somebody wins in the virginia, it will improve in ohio, colorado. >> went charlie gave his number, that is the perfect over-under number. will take the over as well. >> there will be exit polls this so when will we really know? how long will it take before you actually go on the air and say who the winner is? >> will not say who the winner is until we protect them winning the states with 2 minutes of the. in 2008, it was clear that obama had won, but it was 9:00 at night. we have to project -- which cannot just say he won virginia so

he wasn't up to date on what the neocons were saying. good luck. good luck, buddy. thank you, robert gibbs and also alex up in new york. this is "hardball," the place for politics live from boca raton, the place for the final presidential debate. no, no, no, stop! humans -- one day, we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... stop, stop, stop! my car! not so much. but that's okay. you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car, and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility -- what's your policy? to compete on the global stage. what we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. by 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough college graduates to fill them. that's why at devry university, we're teaming up with companies like cisco to help make sure everyone's ready with the know how we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure america's ready. make sure you're read

never believed was a neocon. never believed was idealog he claimed to be. attacking to the center. guy was going to be an idealog like george bush? i never believed that. >> people in massachusetts would say, a, he was moderate as a governor. b, yeah, he would attack to the right to get the nomination. david, general biden just indicated he didn't think it was personal between these two candidates and yet there are many observers, and if you look at the three debates, and last night's debate being the most specific, do you think it's personal between the two candidates? was that evidenced last night because last night they weren't talking about how to move the dow jones up or down. they were talking about life and death. people die in wars. do you think that drew the president out a bit more? >> yeah, i do, actually. i think some of the president's language, some of his tone, talking about, you know, we have these things -- you know, these carriers where you can land airplanes on top of now. i think there was some snashg in the government's tone. i think it becomes that way in the

my guess is that romney may be campaigning in a strong -- as you described, as a neocon level, he may if elected, in a much more realist manner. budget and financial matters. not necessarily an ideological predilection. >> i agree with you completely. >> before we get to stephanie cutter, we have one more chart to look at which plays into this. >> we sum it up, we talked about the total spending target and ways to get there and about the fact that romney has more ambitious plans for defense, so it's all got to come out of somewhere. let's look at the somewhere. this is essentially everything else. this is everything from veter veterans' pensions to big bird to education to transportation. and when you do the math and take what each of these guys is saying, you put it together, this is what they propose to spend, $12 trillion from president obama, $9.3 trillion from ryan, $6.9 trillion from ryan. he's in effect proposing a 40% cut in everything from education to transportation. as i said, big bird and a lot of veterans on food stamps and all that. >> by the way, that's not going to hap

neocons, no, this time you ask to much? no. he'll be pliable, bendable usable to the same crowd that took w., used him and dumped him in history's hamper. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. >> thanks, chris. and thanks to you for tuning in. i'm live tonight in atlanta. more than 8 million people are still without power. after the devastating impact of hurricane sandy. 39 deaths are blamed on the storm and large parts of new jersey are still flooded. on the jersey shore, a roller coaster is now literally in the ocean. in new york city, scenes of devastation after a huge fire destroyed as many as 100 homes. and in midtown manhattan, officials are still trying to secure that crane dangling 74 stories above the streets after partially collapsing in high winds. but we begin with storm politics. with just seven days to go, the presidential race may hinge on how candidates respond to the storm. if they seem presidential or irrelevant. this october surprise has revea

there will be a battle between the neocons and the foreign-policy quote and if i can use this jargon, realist. whether it's a zeliger john bolton, we will find out where romney tilts in terms of the people he selects for his cabinet and top staff. >> i read, the republican establishment, the main old-style has been very ann mcfall with most of the things romney has said in the area foreign-policy and the neocons seem to have had a more dominant voice but the question is to chris's point, where's the real romney and if elected would he go back to scowcroft to view policy or the neocons? we have 26 days to go before the election and one last question i would like to ask. what would you project is the electoral vote for the winner? how many electoral votes do you think the winner will be and if president is elected how many keeping he will get? 270 are needed to win. >> 300. >> 300 for obama and what would you say? >> i'm not going to say who. >> say 300. >> i will say 295. >> i will take a 305 to 320. i think there there has been a tipping point and there will be a clear winner and i th