newell and mr.mcmahon. >> we were asked earlier and what degree the demand would be helpful for us, yes. >> is there any other tool that this congress could give the would help you save lives? we are all for the second amendment of a lawful person to own a gun, but for a criminal and a drug cartel to have easy access, i think the number was 40,000 deaths -- >> the time is expired. is there a question? >> i just want to know if there's other tools we can give you that would help you combat on the front line the illegal sale of guns that is leading to the violence from the border. >> i testified before congress and number of times, and it is not my place to ask -- i know we will do what we can with the resources and the laws that this congress provides less. >> with that we now go to the gentleman from pennsylvania. and this is the second round, folks. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. newell, i am still sort of struggling to find out who knew what and when in the form of the not only the formulation of

newell. did you say that mr. newell? >> i believe i said the investigation was to -- the entire trafficking network. >> i believe you said drug king -- ting kan. let me ask mr. newell -- mr. guiltless the mexican government know who the drug kingpins are in mexico? >> sir, they are aware of the heads of the organizations and to answer your question shortly, yes. >> and so, let me go ahead and ask you another question their mr. gil. in your time working with the mexican government as the former atf fsa in mexico did they ever ask us to do anything like that? you let guns come across the border so they could track them or find a bring down drug kingpins? >> no, sir. >> alright, let me go on to mr. canino. i want to applaud your service in your candor with this committee. we have heard that we are trying to bring down the drug kingpins or whatever the words were as far as stop the trafficking. if you were put in charge of developing an investigation to do that, how would you do that? which are plan involved letting firearms

newell come these are serious allegations. but in your transcribed interview with the committee, you said you never heard these complaints before they became public in february this year. is that right? here's what you said. to the best of my recollection i don't remember any time ever being advised there were discords among the agents. i became aware of that when the documents were released that i saw and what was probably early february something like that of this year. is that information what you expected or received earlier? >> i would have hoped to have received that, yes. >> as we are responsible for bringing these agents concerned to your attention? >> the fall of the chain of command i would hope that information had gotten to me, yes. >> who specifically would have been responsible? there are people in your chain of command -- >> if they had voiced those concerns to their supervisor, i would hope -- and they did not get response the felt that reprieve from the supervisor then obviously they have the right to go over

newell. did you say that mr. newell?believe i said the investigation was to -- the entire trafficking network. >> i believe you said drug king -- ting kan. let me ask mr. newell -- mr. guiltless the mexican government know who the drug kingpins are in mexico? >> sir, they are aware of the heads of the organizations and to answer your question shortly, yes. >> and so, let me go ahead and ask you another question their mr. gil. in your time working with the mexican government as the former atf fsa in mexico did they ever ask us to do anything like that? you let guns come across the border so they could track them or find a bring down drug kingpins? >> no, sir. >> alright, let me go on to mr. canino. i want to applaud your service in your candor with this committee. we have heard that we are trying to bring down the drug kingpins or whatever the words were as far as stop the trafficking. if you were put in charge of developing an investigation to do that, how would you do that? which are plan involved letting firearms move

newell to provide you with an exit strategy?> i did, sir. >> when did the exit strategy envision indictment arising? >> we received the it's a strategy in the end of march. >> what your? >> 2010. >> i'm sorry. >> and we had a 30, 6790 a plan of certain things were accomplished by 30 days we would be able to do it and accomplished by 60 days we would not team. >> said you had more less some kind of time schedules; is that correct? >> that's correct. >> were you following that schedule and were deutsch checking that every 30 days? >> we were actually checking back more than that. we were probably talking weekly about the activity of what was going on in the case and how much closer we were to completing the investigation. >> according to that strategy at the beginning, what was the day that you expected the indictments are writing? you did it in march 2010? >> correct, we were expecting indictments in the summer of 2010. >> i want to understand why it took from march of 2010 when mr. hoover ordered the operation to be shut down to

william newell is the former atf special agent in charge of the phoenixville division and -- i am having a good day. mcmahon is the atf deputy assistant director for field operations west. and i apologize as usual for never getting the names quite right. pursuant to the rules of this committee, all witnesses must be sworn. would you please rise and raise your right hand and take the oath? do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? let the record reflect that all witnesses had said in the affirmative. thank you. please be seated. now even for this committee, this is a large panel. so, if each of you take five minutes, we have 30 minutes. if you take or than five minutes, the guy next to you will also take more than five

. >> special agent newell, what were you thinking? i think that's what we're all scratching our heads about here today. >> this is the moe, curly and larry show, we're looking for larry. are they lying or are you lying? >> sir, this investigation we did not let guns walk. >> you're entitled to your opinion know the to your facts. >> agent in charge william newell repeatedly evaded questions. >> how many hundreds or thousands of weapons did you allow to be purchased knowing that they were going to mexico? >> sir, the purchase was being done by a criminal organization, a large-- >> but you facilitated it, you allowed it. >> the goal of the investigation was to disrupt this. >> he insisted he didn't let the guns cross the borders, documents show they did. he claims his agent tracked them when they didn't. and informed of the program in mexico, they testified he did not. why the widespread investigation was initiated and why it continued. >> i cannot believe that someone in the a.t.f. could so carelessly let the weapons get in the hands o

last year newel briefed the north american director of intelligence at the national security councilthe nsc is chaired by the president and operating out of his executive office. we also heard the u.s. attorney's office was briefed on this many months ago. martha: how far up does this go? and it looks like we're getting closer to an answer. william la jeunesse, thank you very much. >>> so they helped to elect him in '08, so how did the president's strongest supporters now become some of his most vocal critics? mike gallagher joins us here with some ugly polls to look at in three minutes from now. >>> plus, the man who fell down a 30-foot sewer fought off vicious snakes and lived to tell about it. we have his incredible story after this. >> i got a call from robert pal, and he told me that we found him, and i said, is he alive or dead? he goes, he's alive. he says, i need rescue people, he'd been bit by snakes, and he's trapped down under the deal. [ male announcer ] walls can talk. but it's our job to make them say sothing interesting. so how about this weekend we learn some new tric

let me start with barrel of new will --daryl newell.e manages the blueberry harvest but it isn't necessarily an organic harvest. >> i was so disappointed. i had the stereotype of these ceremonies and the tribal chairman would pick the first blueberry and there would be prayers and maybe a drum circle and he said we basically pick them when we are right. that is it. and he said -- and they are organic because these are native people. that is completely wrong. they are commercial. probably go into pillsbury blueberry cake mix. that was an early interview and a very interesting -- this was a man like many people i interviewed who were sort of amused by these questions of the outsider who had this view they have to be organic and close to nature. that is ridiculous. >> he also as i understand it had difficulties he needed to overcome in his life with abandonment in his family. this is a theme that runs through many american families but especially for the native american families. >> he had a horrible time. his mother not exactly abandoned

let me start with darrell newel who is in a sentence someone who manages the blueberry harvest, but low and behold is not necessarily an organic harvest. >> oh, i know. i was disappointed. i had this stereotypes of ceremonies and the tribal chairman would pick the first blueberry, and there'd be prayers and maybe a dropple circle, and he said, no, we just basically pick them when they are ripe. [laughter] that was it, and then he said -- then i thought, of course, they are organic because they are native people. well, that's wrong. he said no, they're commercial. they probably go into pistol -- pillsbury cake mix. it was interesting. this was a man like many i interviewed were sort of abused of the questions from the naive outsider that things have to be organic and close to nature. that's just ridiculous. >> and he also, as i understand, had difficulties he needed to overcome in his life with abandonment in his family. this is a scene running through many faps, but it especially runs through the native american families you portray. >> he had a horrible time. well, his mother essential

let me start with darrell newell, who is from the a tribe. in passing, i could say he's someone who manages the blueberry harvest but lo and behold it isn't necessarily an organic harvest. >> i know. i was so disappointed. i had the stereotype there would be all these ceremonies. and the tribal chairman would pick the first blueberry. and there would be prayers and a drum circle and he said no, we basically go pick them when they're ripe. [laughter] >> and that was it. and then he said -- and then i thought, of course, they are organic because these are native people so it has to be organic. well, that's completely wrong. he said no, they're commercial. they probably go into pillsbury blueberry cake mix. that was an early interview and this was is he interesting. this is a man much like many people i interviewed who were sort of bemused by these questions of the naive outsider who had this view that things have to be organic and close to nature. that's just ridiculous. >> and he also, as i understand, had difficulties he needed to overcome in

congressmen repeatedly tried unsuccessfully to nail newell down. >> did you think it was a good programugh you thought it was a good program at some time. >> sir, as i said in my statement i acknowledge now we did make mistakes in this initiative n this program. >> i think we'll all acknowledge that you're right on that. >> reporter: this program got so out of control one u.s. agent said the u.s. was, quote, single-handedly arming the sinaloa cartel. in a matter of weeks we had sent about 300 assault rifles to mexico and we continued to authorize the sales even when guns bought in phoenix showed up in crime scenes in mexico 24 hours later. the acting anthey called it a perfect storm of idiotcy. >> it's inconceivable. atf does not do that. if i had known that in fact was occurring i would have called atf headquarters. if we did not get relief from them we would have gone upstairs and told the ambassador. >> reporter: we got a detail accounting of the guns sold about 2,000. 300 have been recovered in the u.s. about 227 in mexico. but 1400 remain on the street. this map in mexico shows you

well we skipped mike newel. >> rose: mike new did one? >> he did the fourth one. yates has done the last four. >> rose: tell me why you liked this. >> yates comes out of a gratety realist british t.v.backound. that may be why the material seems to have gotten darker and more grown up as it's gone on. 've been introduced to all of these betrayals and loyalties and the wizard world riven wi... i mean it's like the grown-up adult world. it's like the united states congress. so, i mean, it's... and his background may have added weight to the fantasy and the magic that has made it more and more interesting as people have tten older looking at it also. >> re: how much excitement was there about harry per? >> "harry potter" for kids my age, people... we were in first, second, third, fourth grade when the first book came out. i remember a friend of mine had gone to london for a school vacation and came backwith the first copy i everaw of arry potter" and theyead it to us in school in library time or whatever it was called. and that was where "harry potter" began. and it's

. >> specular special agent newell -- [inaudible] in your words come in your mind, why is that? >> because i think the way i understand fire arms trafficking into mexico which is totally different of any type we've ever done before, i'm from new york. i work these cases all the time but it's different in mexico. what you have is a boss that was guns from the u.s. you give someone in the u.s., say, $70,000 said i was $70,000 worth of guns. >> how did they find each other? >> that person -- that's an established network from the drug trade, drugs going north. so that -- >> i'm sorry, so that relationship is already there because of drug? >> that's right. that individual will recruit individuals in u.s. dubai weapons. when we start picking up one or two people, that hurts the money person in the u.s. but the person in mexico is still going to get his $70,000 worth of guns and that's what happens. so knocking off small purchasers one by one, yeah, it makes hard on the person but not in mexico. that's a key to what we're trying to do at atf. there has to be a balance. as i said, the