i also gave a call y yesterday to a member of nfib maryland.de and founder of event tech based out of baltimore. he thinks it has the potential to bring down costs, but his worried about fines and others. thank you for joining us. i appreciate the fact that you werere able to try to look at this from both sides. >> i certnly ink the mandate is good in that it requires everyone to partipate financially. there are certainly some downsides. it will increase costs for m me and other businesses. it seems u unfair that the tax is disproportionately applied t to individuals. >> why do you feel like it is didisproportionate? >> as an individual, i saw it was somewhwhere in the range of just under $700 when it is full implemented. >> were you providing health care coverage -- >> i i do now. i spend more at this point. >> could it t bring down your costs? >> it can be. i highly doubt it in the future as to the cost of f might insurance will uimately be. we do not know the level of qualifying insurance will be in the future and we do not know what m chang

and jean card is the vice president of media and communications at the nfib. great to see both of you guys. >> good to be here, j.j. thank you. >> good to be here. >> so, jean, i want to start with you. the nfib was one of the parties that brought suit against the affordable care act. so explain to me, as a small business owner, how is this going to adversely affect me? >> well, it's really what you were saying earlier, is the cost issue. and that was a big concern of ours from the very beginning when this bill was being debated. and unfortunately, we did sue on the individual mandate. we don't think that our members should be forced to purchase a product that they may not want or need, but overall -- >> i just want to stop you for one second. >> sure. >> most small businesses are under 50 people. most small businesses over 25 people already provide health insurance. so let's take away the part that suddenly, i, as a small business, am going to be forced to buy health care. because for the most part i'm not going to. and most already do anyhow, besides that it

guest: the nfib have been more pragmatic than the white house. the white house insisted it did not have backup plans and would win. it said it was confident what ever happened would be ok. the public statements reflected this. the nfib discussed alternative options before they knew they would have to use them. the main thing they stressed was the employer mandate. they will make that the major part of their campaign running up to the elections. republicans say just because the court upheld the law does not mean is a good law and they should repeal it. the focus to getting rid of it shifts back to congress. host: how certain are you that consumers are clear on what the law means to them? a recent piece you wrote was regarding consumers. what should they know will be -- or be thinking about? guest: some of the consumer- oriented provisions have taken effect. people do not necessarily associate them to the law. --ter's attribute this to supporters attribute this tothe relative lack of popularity. preventive services without out of pocket costs has g

the nfib was one of the parties that brought suit against the affoableare t. so expino me as sma sineowne hows thi ing aerse afft me ll,t's allyhat you were sayg eaier,s cost sue. and that was a big concern of ours from the very beginning when this bill was being debated. and unfortunately, weiduen thindidual maate. we d'think thaurembe shld b fced to purase oducthathe mayotant ored, but ovall- >> jus wto stoou f e send. sure. >> most small businesses are under 50 people. most small businesses over 25 people already provide health insurance. sot's tak away t parhat suenlyi, a amall sine, amoingo borce touy hlth ca. becae foheost pt'm t gng to. d mtlrea doyhow besides that it's going to be required. so, let's just say i have a business. i'm 25pele. w ishisoing t aerse fecte? >>yeah youe rit. youon'tave me th 50 ploys yodon'haveo pride forhem. hower, t cos ireal hh rit w, a it's only going to get higher. there's going to be a tax that hits the types of pla that all businesses purchase, the typeof iuran pls. th's t tha won go on eacks o bigr biness. on sma busess

the very organization started by my friend from oregon, -- arkansas, nfib, screams the loudest about uncertainty and yet here we are, going to have expeditious consideration that could take weeks or months here in this body and we're not going to put a finite time limit to give them the predictability and the certainty they say they want. i think it's the minimum required in this legislation if we really mean to affect change and i yield back. the chair: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from arkansas. mr. griffin: i yield back. the chair: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from virginia. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the noes have it. mr. connolly: madam chairman. on that matter i would request a recorded vote. the chair: pursuant to clause 6 of rule 18 further proceedings on the amendment offered by the gentleman from virginia will be postponed. it is now in order to consider amendment number 11 printed in part b of house report 112-616.

according to the nfib, the drop in confidence is a direct result of political uncertainty leading upvember's election. president obama has refreshed his fair share campaign pushing a tax increase for earners over $250,000 a year. and while the president maintains this will speed up the recovery, some investors remain skeptical. >> it will stifle ininvestment growth. that is the underpinnings ever our economy, something we need. capital spending, research and development. you are taking money out of productive hands and putting it wherever you want. >> after a slew of disappointing economic indicators, small businesses are also scaling back expansion. the survey reports the businesses are slowing down plans to hire and buy more equipment, an indication that owners expect the economy to drag for the foreseeable future. just last week, the labor department said only # 0,000 jobs were create in june. unemployment remains high at 8.2% and according to the federal reserve, the jobless rate will remain above 8% until at least next year. in new york, i'm robert gray. >>> coming up, redskins

bill unkeberg is chief economist at nfib. good to he so you. >> good morning, how are you doing?ere any optimism in here, any good in this? >> i guess we should call it a pessimism index today. the three-point decline is a large decline so the index now falls to 91 and change, which is if you want to find those readings in history you look at the last five years. that's where you find readings this poor. so there's really not a lot of optimism. what we saw was a major decline in expectations for sales and state of the economy six months out, so that went down and of course if you don't think things are going to be very good you see hiring plans fall, you see capital spending down, you see inventory investment fall to nothing, and that's not good. those are the gdp numbers so it just was a poor survey. >> we were showing people the index outlined in blue and you can see it's fallen dramatically in the last month or so, sore since the last number. this survey before or after the health care decision? >> well, basically it's all before. we mail 10 tnc,000 interviews oe first day of

nfib also found that the businesses most likely to be hit are those businesses employing between 020 and 250 employees. according to the u.s. census, the data that they collect, these businesses employ more than 25% of the workforce. and so the million small businesses that according to the joint committee on taxation will see their taxes go up under this proposal employ 25% of the american workforce and account for over 50% of all pass-thru income. and so you're going to see taxes go up -- taxes go up dramatically on over 50% of pass-thru income and on small businesses that employ 25% of the american workforce. now, does that make sense in this economy? it should be no wonder that the political party advocating this kind of tax policy has also presided over the weakest economic recovery literally since the end of world war ii. the impact of the reid tax increases on small businesses will be bad enough, but unfortunately these tax increases will have significant ramifications for our entire economy. according to a study released earlier this month by ernst & young be, the reid tax pl

i did argue the case for the nfib against the individual mandate. so it's sort of like the old saying, right? the operation was a success but the patient died. which is sort of how -- [laughter] got the really good commerce clause rulings and then the chief justice in what was accurately characterized and gave congress the power under the taxing power all the power that it wants under the commerce clause power. i thought i'd walk through it pretty quickly to explain why this was clearly a judicial rewriting of the statute and not an interpretation of the statute. as chief justice correctly noted. the test between what is peanlt and what is tax has always been relatively straightforward in the law. if you have a legal violation that you can't offend, then whatever monetary consequence is attached to that, that's a penalty. if it says, don't do something and you do it, and then put a penalty on top of it, that's a penalty, can't be a tax. if they ban cigarettes across the united states and say, if you sell them the penalty is a $5 a pack fine, that's

that scathing statement today from the national federation of independent business or nfib, about thesents from president obama. listen to this. >> i'm always struck by people who think, it must be because i was so smart, there are a lot of smart people out there. it must be because i worked harder than everybody else. let me tell you something, there are a whole bunch of hard working people out there. somebody helped to create this unbelievable american system that we have that allowed you to thrive. somebody invested in roads and bridges. if you've got a business, you didn't build that. >> well the president joins us right now. mr. danner, good to have you on the program. >> thanks good to be here. >> let's get your take on these comments. >> i think it's a clap in the face of every entrepreneur who had a dream and risked everything he or she had to build a business and worked 15 hours a day to get to their dream and now the president says, you didn't build that. they absolutely did. >> well, i mean, if you've got a business you didn't build that, i suppose the government, i guess it

guest: nfib have been more pragmatic than the white house.it said it was confident what ever happened would be ok. the public statements reflected this. the nfib discussed alternative options before they knew they would have to use them. the main thing they stressed was the employer mandate. they will make that the major part of their campaign running up to the elections. republicans say just because the court upheld the law does not mean is a good law and they should repeal it. the focus to getting rid of it shifts back to congress. host: how certain are you that consumers are clear on what the law means to them? a recent piece you wrote was regarding consumers. what should they know will be thinking about? guest: some of the consumer- oriented provisions have taken effect. people do not necessarily associate them to the law. the relative lack of popularity. preventive services without out of pocket costs has gotten some attention in recent months because contraception is now included. that is one part of the law already in effect. one of th

nfib also found that the businesses most likely to be hit are those businesses employing between 020 and 250 employees. according to the u.s. census, the data that they collect, these businesses employ more than 25% of the workforce. and so the million small businesses that according to the joint committee on taxation will see their taxes go up under this proposal employ 25% of the american workforce and account for over 50% of all pass-thru income. and so you're going to see taxes go up -- taxes go up dramatically on over 50% of pass-thru income and on small businesses that employ 25% of the american workforce. now, does that make sense in this economy? it should be no wonder that the political party advocating this kind of tax policy has also presided over the weakest economic recovery literally since the end of world war ii. the impact of the reid tax increases on small businesses will be bad enough, but unfortunately these tax increases will have significant ramifications for our entire economy. according to a study released earlier this month by ernst & young be, the reid tax pl

you know what the nfib is? you. who know what it is. >> right. >>> they are ant important character in "pity the billionaire." they are the ones who filed the supreme court lawsuit against obamacare. that was them. >> if you don't give the billionaires a tax cut you will kill jobs. they are the job creators. they say you are shutting down, if you don't give them a tax cut, you are shutting down small business. that's right. >> koch brothers, by the definition in kansas. they just changed the law. unless i am getting facts wrong and i could be because i haven't been there for about a month but they got this enormouts, the state income tax in kansas no longer exists for small businesses the cokes don't have to pay the state income tax. if they take a few steps, you know, and sort of billed some legal entities to run their income through, which is very easy to do? >> president obama pointed out that under the definition of the sba, small business administration definition 97.3% of small businesses would get the ta

i did argue the case for the nfib against the individual mandate. so it's sort of like the old saying, the operation was a success but the patient died. which is sort of how -- we got some really good commerce clause rulings and the chief justice in the dissent accurately characterizes, rewrote the sthaut and gave congress the power and -- statute and gave congress the power all the power just removed from the commerce clause power. i thought i would walkthrough it clearly. why this was truly a judicial rewriting of the statute and not an interpretation as the chief justice correctly noted. the test between what is a penalty and tax has been straightforward in the law. if you have a legal violation, that you can't offend, then whatever monetary consequences, that's a penalty. if it says don't do something and do you it, they put a penalty on top of it. that's a penalty. can't be a tax. if they ban cigarettes, across the united states and say if you sell them the penalty is $5 a pack fine, that's a fine. that's a penalty. if they say go ahead and sel

according to the group the nfib, it's a sign that economic growth slowed dramatically in the month ofw moments we'll that you can to a small business owner about how optimistic he is about the future. also, we are keeping and eye on a growing power struggle heating up in egypt. the nation's islamist dominated parliament meeting today on mohammed morsi. who is really controlling egypt today, leland. >> that is the $1.3 billion question. that is how much the united states gives the egyptian army every year and they have counted on the egyptian army to keep control no matter who runs egypt. we all expected this public power struggle between the army and between morsie of the muslim brotherhood. no one expected to happen. this he takes control of egypt from the army egypt all of a sudden will change very, very quickly. we need to look north to turkey to see what happened in that case. the turkish army was in control of the country, a nato member, a long u.s. ally, all of a sudden a strong islamist president took over. and turkey has changed from being a strong supporter of israel and the

again, i'm obviously going to have to say something about the nfib case. should say i wrote brief on three parts of it attacking the mandate, speaking about sever and the also going after the medicaid extension. and i think the one point i would like to make is this: when i drafted the brief on the question of the medicaid exemption, everybody just kind of laughed. they said, look, this argument was so bad that it did not carry a single vote anywhere in the united states, republican or democrat. the argument was so pathetic that the state of texas and the state of florida refused to raise it before the supreme court. and they were halted against their will when the supreme court said we'd actually like to hear this kind of thing. with that kind of pedigree, seems you actually have a pretty good chance of winning. [laughter] because the last fact is actually more important than all the others. the interesting feature about it is i actually regard this as a relatively easy case as a matter of first principle, but i thought it was an extremely difficult case

in fact, pehs te eest noharo inseiray'wy tsthbor ed ol e he atchllen and nfib challenge, he was a fellowof the court joining cato on a number of briefs tht i was il tgno thasn fing ur ra s t, s i a weird sort of victory for federalism enclosed in a loss. as i ttled m g te anethbue ca vedidtkicd fehi l teg the ring -- improper clause and spending clause. indeed i filed fourbriefs a e sue cudhi maoes d n codinyg id of ef luckily, i wasn't ofthe of e me kyi who was addressed wi the taxings power. anwahe heeou ontrs i ws striking, i understand why fox news and cnn got it wrong immediately. i think all of udisitting the t a ef icbegono ssy t threar ac ls t crc au e ng wage is incredible. they gave them the power to regulate it. not exce it. it is not aeise lyaulrt wlnginacur trct. ie ivlmaat ises innc reforms such an expansioof federal power is not a proper means for making those effective. those could have come from any bris nsis viraren bl thwib haasrng he addressed we had to address the taxing power. i thought we had won. and wedid't. i wasn't sure what wagong lyhit a lil si itaroase he op

the 26 national business groups such as the nfib, the chamber of commerce, the national association of home builders, the national association of the self-employed, have endorsed this and have sent a letter to us with very enthusiastic support. the next section is expanding access to capital for entrepreneurs. mr. president, this was actually mentioned in president obama's state of the union message to us when he talked about his small business proposals. he outlined maybe a half a dozen things, a few of which we've implemented and a few of which we have not yet implemented. this was on his bucket list, if you will if you will -- if you will, and i am a strong proponent of this provision. we created a small business investment company in a bipartisan way decades ago. it's been one of the most successful programs created to spur business development in the country. it basically operates at -- operates on a sustainable level and doesn't cost the federal government anything. it's like a venture capital but not really like venture capital, it's like an investment, not a bank but a nonbank

nfib also found that the businesses most likely to be hit are those businesses employing between 020 and 250 employees. according to the u.s. census, the data that they collect these businesses employ more than 25% of the workforce. and so the million small businesses that according to the joint committee on taxation will see their taxes go up under this proposal employ 25% of the american workforce and account for over 50% of all pass-thru income. and so you're going to see taxes go up -- taxes go up dramatically on over 50% of pass-thru income and on small businesses that employ 25% of the american workforce. now, does that make sense in this economy? it should be no wonder that the political party advocating this kind of tax policy has also presided over the weakest economic recovery literally since the end of world war ii. the impact of the reid tax increases on small businesses will be bad enough, but unfortunately these tax increases will have significant ramifications for our entire economy. according to a study released earlier this month by ernst & young be, the reid tax pla

i'm worried, we see this in the nfib and other job surveys.nt and is this more than they usually complain? is this really a skills gap or just employers with their main complaint? >> you're right, they always mention this and it's always high on their list. i will tell you there is a real problem there in i.t. and in health care and i see it and it's much different than it was two years ago. i wouldn't say that it's the same as it was in 2007, but i would say we're getting back to a similar point for high end skilled workers and information technology so it's a real concern. you're right, they always mention it as the first and it will always be their first concern regardless of the economic circumstance but there's a real issue there. >> i didn't see in your survey if you ask about things like the fiscal cliff or the deficit, or health care uncertainty. how much does that you think right now that's playing in the issue of whether or not employers are hiring? >> i don't know that they came out in the survey. i will tell you all three conversat