we just had niall ferguson on. h niall on several things president but eblgs like i believe a default is a default and that's not good for the united states of america. break it down for us. what happens if america defaults on its debt obligations? >> right. well,o joe, as you know, nobody knows what will happen because our country has never defaulted. so, the risks are very, very high. and you hear that from across the, you know, economic community. what happens, first of all, is that if the united states doesn't going pay its bills and i mean any of its bills, you do begin to undermine the full faith and credit of the united states. specifically what begins to happen is that the treasury can no longer meet its payments and that means, you know, folks on social security or folks providing medicare service or our troops in the field don't get paid. and ultimately you put the whole full faith and credit of the united states in jeopardy. that means that interest rates go up. people's 401(k)s and other investments get