. >> the question is for nicholas berggruen. last night we talked about interstellar and the opportunities for governance on a new frontier. and this morning we heard from admiral roj ors regarding cyber -- rogers regarding cyberspace and some of the challenges associated with governance of cyberspace here on our planet but internationally. i'm curious be you've given any thought to -- if you've given any thought to a virgin frontier of governance which might be something like the interstellar governance or governance of cyberspace on a grand international scale and how that might take shape or form contrasted to your comments about the state of california that there's no easy recipe. >> i'm not sure that there'll be easier recipes for cyberspace. i mean, in truth what's happened i think it's a good thing, but the consequences are enormous. the cyberspace has become incredibly relevant same way as 50 years ago nuclear weapons or let's say nuclear power became incredibly important for good or for bad, you know? create energy but

[laughter] nicholas berggruen is next, philanthropist founder of the berggruen institute on governance, and he's launched several government reform products including these three; the 21st century council focused on global governance options, g20-type structures the council for the future of europe and, importantly for residents of california, the think long committee for california. he's co-author of a book with nathan gardells. and then simon sinek is to my far left. simon's an anthropologist who advises leaders in business, government the nonprofit sector on issues related to leadership, and you'll see how i think there's a very close tie-in to the subjects we're going to discuss. he does work with rand as well as one of our adjunct researchers. he's contributing to our research on leadership issues for the american military. author of several bestsellers and a frequent speaker here at rand. so frank has done a lot of research probably more research and analysis on the causes of political decay, more thinking about the problems plaguing modern liberal democratses than just -- democr