i'm nicholas carlyle and the director of "bully" , san francisco's nonprofit and we share with you the realization that punishment makes bullying situations worse. it's uncoupled bullying and punishment and the question is, which is kind of a comment too. if we uncouple bullying and punishment doesn't that make it much easier to define what bullying is? and seems to me and defining bullying because the bar is so high because we're afraid it's going to trigger some prescribed consequence and bullying doesn't necessarily have to lead to a consequence and just a solution wouldn't that make the definition of bullying much easier? >> i don't think that that -- at least from my perspective and what i heard so far that the focus of addressing bullying leads to punishment. at least what i have been talking about and my colleagues here is we're focused on addressing it as changing behaviors, and learned positive behaviors as opposed to trying to assess or attach a punishment to it. it might result in some punishment if it's extreme but i think that the focus at least from us is that we want to