still tend to participate the way they are supposed to. >> she is of a different generation. >> nick ackerman, two nights in a row, one on one, lead off guess, we like that. >> my thanks to nick. >>> we've been working on something really important. it has to do with the strategist of donald trump, where he has always already gotten his haters that say, it is time for new ideas and a new generation. >>> i have a breakdown by the end of the hour about something uplifting with diplomacy. a lot coming up. stay with us. ith us. plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin. the only brand with real honeyand elderberry. robitussin. meet a future mom, a first-time mom and a seasoned pro. this mom's one step closer to their new mini-van! yeah, you'll get used to it. this mom's depositing money with tools on-hand. cha ching. and this mom, well, she's setting an appointment here, so her son can get set up there and start his own financial journey. that's because these moms all have chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the power of both. chase.

and nick ackerman, if you had him, you know, as you said, for hours and hours, and hours. what would you want to ask him? myself personally, i would also want to know what the secret service agents were saying, did you trust them? because this could be about donald trump but it could also be about some of them. what would you want to know? >> oh, i think we -- >> i'm sorry, nick first. >> yeah y think we want to know exactly what his suspicion was based on. why did he think they were trying to whisk him out of the capitol so quickly? was it one of the people that was close to donald trump that was in charge of doing that? did somebody say something to him? i mean, i'm sure he knew that part of this whole plot was to stop that vote, stop the congress from considering the electoral count, and that one way to do it was to get him off premises, get him out of the capitol. so i think, you know, he probably did have other conversations with people. don't forget, once mike pence told him there's no way, no how i'm going to do this, donald trump knew that the only way he was going

. >>> joining us to discuss, former watergate prosecutor nick ack ackerman. thanks for joining us.ther classified document in vice president pence's possession. does that complicate things for him? >> i don't really think so. i mean, i think what he did, the sail thing that joe biden did, was they basically invited the fbi in. it put the onus on the fbi as opposed to their own legal team to come up with whatever was there. and certainly allowing the fbi to do it allows them basically to say, both biden and pence, to say, look, we let them in, we cooperated. they looked -- this is what they found. i think that really ends the matter. there is totally unlike the situation with donald trump. >> explain how because there are going to be people who think that if all three men are not held accountable in the same exact way, then it will be unfair. but explain why you don't agree with that proposition. >> well, it's because donald trump basically for a year didn't turn over the documents each though he was asked -- even though he was asked on numerous occasions to do so. he finally turned

with me in studio, we have natasha, former assistant special watergate prosecutor nick ackerman and john berman. seamless, people. seamless. >> you walked all the way over here. >> across a bridge, everyone. great to have you all. obviously, they want the talk to vice president pence. he was key in all of this. specifically, what information can he provide that no one else can? >> well, he had direct one-on-one conversations with donald trump. there is absolutely no way the special counsel can decide whether to indict or not to indict donald trump until he first puts vice president pence under oath in a grand jury and asks him what they said, what donald trump said to him and what he said to donald trump. >> i'm surprised to hear you say. that they do have a lot of other information. let me pull up this full screen, this graphic, of who has testified before the grand jury. so not the special counsel but they have this information. pat cipollone, pat philbin, mark short, former pence chief of staff, pence's general counsel, ken cuccinelli, why is pence so instrumental if they have informa

prosecutor nick ackerman is here. what do you see out of this news tonight?be the first president of the united states to ever be indicted. that's what we're looking at. this is going to be a historic moment. i mean, the atlanta journal constitution is also reporting tonight that this foreperson has also said that there are more multiple tapes, more than the two tapes we know about, the one with raffensperger and the one with the chief investigator for the georgia secretary of state. >> i thought that was interesting. other tapes with evidence against trump or possibly including them that the grant jury has that we may not have seen. >> that tells me there is powerful evidence out there and the chief witness against donald trump in georgia is going to be donald trump. >> and you put it like that, it's damning. it is unusual, and i discussed on our broadcast tonight why there are some questions about how this is all coming out, but the largest most significant part is whether they have the goods and the evidence that the time has taken years and some people sa