with evan osnos, orville shell, chai ling, nick kristof. join us for a conversation about the history and the implications of tianamen square. >> to be in the square during the weeks leading up to june 4 was like being at some incredible festival almost, the feeling of sort of elation as if something had lifted. the press for the first time was absolutely free. people all across china were watching what's happening. and it was an amazingly feeling of sort of sudden lack of repression, and everybody, i think, believed that this was an inflection point. >> rose: a moment of change. >> they would never get this thing-- this jeanie back in the bottle. but, of course, that was a very naive presumption. >> rose: we conclude with jeff widener, the man who took one of the most famous pictures of all time, a young man in front of a tank. >> then suddenly, we heard a noise down the street, and it was a familiar sound of tanks. i went to the balcony, and i thought this is a nice composition air, compressed shot of the tanks, and then a man walks out k

nick kristof is a pulitzer prize winning journalist. and from boston, chai ling. number 4 on china's most wanted list. i am pleased to have you all here. welcome. let's go back, orville, and tell me about that day and what led up to it. >> it was really an extraordinary episode in chinese history and any history. to be in the square during the weeks leading up to june 4, it was like being at some incredible festival. the feeling of elation, as if something had lifted. the press was absolutely free, people all across china were watching what was happening, and it was an amazingly -- a feeling of sudden lack of repression. everybody believed they would never get this genie back in the bottle. but that was a naÏve presumption. >> and hu yaobang's death? >> he had been pushed out a couple years earlier. hard-liners thought he hadn't cracked down hard enough. he was no great champion of liberalization, but given what happened to him, the students did try to mourn his death when he died. signs like "the wrong man died" went up. that gradually went into a call to honor h

. >> even the elections that nick kristof spoke of, you saw the ways those played out and there any ofer being elected even in city elections, one or two .ndependent candidates the local authorities will go to all kinds of lengths to stop them from being alike did -- being elected. any kind of minor threat is immediately stop and i think it's getting waste and waste. when i asked about what had happened to the reform wing of andparty, he almost scoffed said they had been bought with the spoils of war. whether there is much of an appetite under the hearty ruled sure.jinping, i'm not >> how much appetite is there? you could say after 1989 where the parties appetite to even toy with the idea of reform sort of banished because it became too frightening, too dangerous. we have seen 25 years when they have not been able to revisit this question in a meaningful way. ofdoes raise the question how it will happen in china. how can it happen in china particularly after this? thanks that is actually a real question. -- >> that is actually a real question. that sense, you could say, right or wrong,