and nick martel of market snacks, good to see you both. i love to have you two together. it's entirely different paths and kinds of companies, you bought a company out of bankruptcy and had scaled it and you started yours as a side project in school and have grown it. let's start with you, karen. >> one tip. >> one tip is that innovation is about bringing people what they did not know they want, you get a lot of nos and have to turn those into yeses. >> times to pivot. how do you know that no -- you started your company or bought clear and got a lot of nos from airports not wanting to work with you. >> yes. >> you didn't have to pivot the idea of the company. >> right, but you have to pivot how you're presenting and sharing information, you know, better to meet in person than on