. ♪ judy: journalist nicole hannah jones 1619 project has become a topic of much debate in recent yearsbookshelfe spoke with her about expanding upon that original work. the importance of looking back at how our nations history unfolded and its relevance to today. >> in 2019, the new york times magazine published the 1619 project. with the claim that 1619, the year the first enslaved africans were brought to what would become the united states could be considered the origin of this country. the journalist who created and helmed the project is nicole hannah jones, reporter for the magazine who won the pulitzer prize for her work on the 1619 project. it went to a special newspaper section two a multi-episode podcast, and has been expanded into the new book the 1619 project, a new origin story. nicole hanna jones at howard university me now in our studio. welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> why, the expansion? what did you feel is necessary to expand upon in this new book? >> there were still so many areas of american life that we wanted to explore. in other historians we wanted to includ

more seriously nicole hannah jones with trinity left scholars seem to get their historical facts almostory of the united states is not every turtledove fantasy writer. she's done this several times, not just saying revolutionary war was bought by slavery but everything unique in the united states came out of slavery in past race war. now the reason for the use of the atom bomb was we spent money on it and wanted to see if it worked. the japanese were about to make peace. the reality there for those watching might be confused about this is probably 90% of academic historians think the alternative to bombing hiroshima invading the heartland japanese home island. hundreds of thousands would have died. there is a book "thank god for the atom bomb" by a veteran who laid out the details. so this kind of thing, the french position is incredibly true. we see it on the left and it is problematic. >> shannon: she did take back that one tweet so there must be enough growing opposition that she also did say if you can take things in pride that you'd were possibly involved within the past you have t

"the new york times" 6019 project and its award-winning and controversial creator nicole hannah jones out with the book this week. it is not worth addressing because it is self refuting when you assemble an entire project around the demonstrably false idea that preserving slavery was the primary motivation for the american revolution, around the audacious claim that our true founding is 1619, not 1776 and retract or eliminate both claims while pretending they were never made, there is little more others can add except to acknowledge what is by now plain for all to see, the purpose of the 6019 project is not to teach history but to propagandize. the true american founding is in 1776. there should be no historical dispute about it. the ideas assembled in that singular year were of such a unique combination and importance in human history, you must play contrarian games to insist otherwise. i suggest to you the truth about 1620 amidst a time of constant historical revisionism is that it represents not just a convenient myth about the nation but something that was essential to our foundin

near times editor says i did inherit this newspaper so how can i prove his white person say to nicole hannah jones put my standards of individual rights are correct while she iss arguig those rights are arranged and met of the hierarchy and there's this level of guilt and what shelby steele called white guilt and that means there is a lot waiting and surrender caucus. >> host: you believe in god and i believe in god, physical god. you have hope that we can get through this as a country and as a culture and a sure hope strictly limited to the sphere of this world or is your hope anchored in your faith? >> my hope is always anchored in my faith. god makes promises and keepsy those promises that as far as hope for the country americans ared getting tired of this. it's boring and irritating and so far there hasn't been a mask movement to reject it. i think a mask movement is coming and i can't tell you how many people who disagree on nearly everything about politics i've talked to lately her resume with the message i'm saying. it is that we can't have an open conversation and it is that they want to b

the latest iteration of nicole hannah jones' project trying to tell a fuller history of this countryou ask the majority of americans what critical race theory is, they have no idea what it means. and it really is this idea of recognizing the totality of american history and i think only of secretary of transportation pete buttigieg who acknowledged the need for infrastructure money to tear down the systemic racism we saw in our infrastructure, in our highways. how do you explain this to families that the importance of us not to repeat the sins of the past, we must share the totality of our history so that our children can also grapple with it in a way that is built on an analysis and thoughtfulness. >> critical race theory, most people don't know what it means. i went to law school. i learned critical race theory in law school. it is about teaching how the law has been infected by racism. and how we have created structures of racism. and so that's important. the people who are fighting against critical race theory don't know what it is. they were fed that because somebody on the righ

now, nicole hannah jones is expanding the argument in a book published today. 1619 project a new origin deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. for starters, your mom doesn't have a restaurant. if she did, it would be impossible to get in. she'd become famous overnight. she'd get talked into franchising everything. and at that point, they wouldn't really taste like your mom's short ribs. no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. that's why instacart helps deliver the ingredients. cough cough sneeze sneeze... no one can deliver your mom's home[ sneezing ]ibs. needs, plop plop fizz fizz. alka seltzer plus cold relief. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus. now available for fast sinus relief. tonight, i'll be eating a club sandwich with fries and a side of mayonnaise. [doorbell rings] wonderful! mayonnaise? on fries? a little judgy, don't you think? ♪ that's weird. so weird. ♪ oouf. i'll also be needing, stain remover, club soda and a roll of paper towels. [doorbell rings] lifesaver! you're weird, man. to each his

pulitzer prize-winning reporter and creator of the project nicole hannah jones expands upon the research and the history of slavery in america. in the clock and the calendar doug collins of georgia offers a first-hand account of president trump's 2019 impeachment hearing and chief washington correspondent jonathan carl examines the aftermath of the 2020 election his newest book is called betrayal. historian james morgan explains how america became involved in the vietnam war. in reclamation, thomas jefferson's monticello recalls efforts to have sally hemmings recognized as a descendent of the family and reflects on her own connection to hemmings and jefferson. that is a look at this week's publishing news and the latest nonfiction books. thanks for joining us on about books available as a podcast on c-span now or wherever you get your

you can't be embarrassed by nicole hannah jones, because these people are going to yell at those people anyway, i would rather have democrats defend toni morrison and defend nicole hannah jones and stand for something as opposed to constantly falling back and falling back and trying to placate these people who aren't arguing in good faith in the first place. >> and who cannot be placated. judith, thank you. >>> and now that steve bannon is indicted for contempt of congress, who is next? >> and getting more dads to speak up about the need for paid family leave. >>> and a look at the other big stories we're watching at this hour on msnbc. >> the goal to reduce coal and fossil fuel emissions and to transition to renewable energy, some scientists say the agreement falls short of limiting the earth warping before quote the point of no return. >>> a federal appeals court protected a challenge by the biden administration, upheld the decision to block the president's vaccine mandate on companies that have 100 workers or more. the panel judges called the vaccine mandate quote staggeringly overbo

in her new book, pulitzer prize-winning reporter and creator of 16 19 project, nicole hannah jones, expands upon her research in the history of slavery in america. in the clock and the calendar, former republican congressman doug collins of georgia, offers a firsthand account of president trump's 2019 impeachment hearing, and abc news chief washington correspondent jonathan karl examines the aftermath of the 2020 election. his newest book is called betrayal. also being published this week, historian james -- explains how america became involved in the vietnam war. the book is called the ear of the hawk. and reclamation, -- he works at thomas jefferson's monticello, calling for efforts to have sally hemings recognizes a descendant of the jefferson family, but she also reflects on her own ancestral connection, the hemings and jefferson. that is a look at this weeks publishing news and the latest nonfiction books. thanks for joining us on about books. about books is available as a podcast on c-span now or wherever you get your podcast. up next on book tv, hudson institute fellow melanie kirkpa

. >> host: you reference the 1619 project and nicole hannah jones is the founder of that. here's a little of her describing it. >> august of 6019 is our if true founding year and black americans as much as these alabaster man said monuments around the capitol city is true founding father that is their legacy and in doing so we find ourselves in the four and ourselves in the four and a fear of the 1619 project that tells the truth about who we are as a nation and who we can be and in doing so we will stop hiding from our sins but work to make them right. >> host: carol swain what is your reaction to what nicole hannah jones had to say let's >> guest: the 1619 was the date and the year when the first africans came to america as indigenous servants and initially probably for the first 20 or 25 years i know roughly the dates but the served along with the whites. theyte were freed and many of tm became professionals. they became the back on a freed black america and if you've been to martha's vineyard you'll run across and i don't know if you're black or white that if you're bl

the creator of a controversial 1619 project, nicole hannah jones is coming out with a new book next weekanding on her earlier work. the book is 1619 project, new origin story. double sound on the argument that slavery was at the center of the nation's founding. that idea received immense criticism and inspired legal action but despite the pushback, she's pushing her narrative even further releasing an additional 1619 project designed for children. the other hoping it will become a staple in classrooms across the country. it's been a shocking week in wisconsin from a murder trial of kyle rittenhouse the defendant major clashes between the judge and for prosecution. the trial is almost over but tensions are still running high wisconsin national guard has been put on standby ahead of monday's closing arguments. alexis is live in kenosha, wisconsin with the latest. >> good evening. we are hearing from the state of wisconsin there are about 500 national guardsmen on standby it just in case and possible cases of unrest here in the area. business owners and locals we talked to hear are still no

. >> you reference the 1619 project, nicole hannah jones is the founder of fat.e's a little of her describing that. >> we argue with the project 1619 is our true founding year end black americans, as much as these men set in monument around the capitol city, the true founding fathers, that is our legacy and heritage. we finally hope in this year, the 1619 project will tell the truth we are as a nation and who we can be. doing so. hiding from our sin but confront them and work to make them right. >> what is your reaction to what nicole hannah jones had to say? >> 1619 was the date, the year when the first african-american came to america as indigenous and initially probably the first 20 or 25 years, i don't have the exact date, i roughly know the date but lacks served with white servants, they w were freed. many of them became professionals, they became the backbone or free blacks in america and if you've been to martha's vineyard, he would run across -- i don't know if you're black or white but if you're black, you couldan be one of thm and would probably tell yo

. >> well, you referenced the 1619 project nicole hannah jones is the founder of that, here is a little bit from her describing it. >> we argue with this project that august of 1619 is our true founding year and that black americans as much as these men said in monument around capital city, i see the nation's true founding father. that that is our legacy and inheritance and in doing so in this 400th year that 1619 project will force us to tell the truth about who we are as a nation and who we can be and in doing so that we will stop hiding from our sins but confront them and work to make them right. >> carol swain, what's your reaction to what nicole hannah jones had to say? >> she says it all. 1619 was the date, the year when the first africans came to america as inventured servants and probably for the first 25 years, i don't have the exact dates. i roughly know the dates but the blacks served along with whites servants, they were freed and many of them became professionals. they became the backbone of free blacks in america. if you have been to martha's vineyard, you will run across

most of the problems are with the main essay written by nicole hannah jones, the great historian at princeton writing in a recent essay about the issues of the 1619 project beyond the factual mistakes about the american revolution being fought to preserve slavery, that was the main factual problem with 1619, goes on to say instead of trying to instruct the public about the significance of the year 1619 and hence the foundational importance of slavery and racism to american history the project promoted a narrow, heidi ideological view of the american past according to which white supremacy has been the nation's corporate billing chief mission ever since its founding so i understand your point about competing narratives, not the right way to look at this but on the one side we do have some folks saying our founding is -- has been a fraud. our principles were betrayed from day one and on the other side saying our glorious past, valley forge and d-day and george washington never chop down a cherry tree. >> sean is a very good historian. i disagree with him, he disagrees with me, i disagree with h

and so nicole hannah jones, you have since become a great friend to the show.'t know how to comment to that. but first thank you for having me on the show and for all of your thoughtful reporting and commentary that you do. i have become a symbol both for people who love the work that i'm doing and for people who not only hate the work that i'm doing but really hated this idea that our society was going to have to reckon with the fact that we were founded on ideals of freedom. and these are people who really -- they say that they are patriotic but they don't seem to believe that our country is strong enough to deal with the truth of who we were in the past and who we are in the present. and all we have to do is look at what is happening in our society right now. the kyle rittenhouse ruling yesterday, ahmaud arbery's case that is ongoing, the fact that there is an insurrection on january 6. 1619 explains so much of that. and i believe that we can grapple with our past so that we can try to build the country that we say we are. >> to grapple truthfully with our p

happened in these major newspapers with the "new york times"" essentially run out by the neck nicole hannah jones wing. it seeks to cancel people routinely thatam lies about american history and wins pulitzers four. everyone is supposed to genuflect and if you don't, you might find yourself out on your butt. if you cross the mildest light which that line can move anytime, you will find yourself out pretty good the editorial page editor james bennett find yourself out of a job pretty generic op-ed that united states editor. you can be donald mcneil in the science writer for the "new york times" and find yourself out of a job because on a school trip a while ago you said to a student there are certain of the word there not other uses. again this comes to the nature of a bunch of liberals who run .the institution. the "new york times" was liberal has been liberal for decades. the problem is that liberals did not have the courage of their own conviction sank to the radicals you do not get to destroy individual right and individual freedom of the press the ability to say brother you do not be to destr

this abuse of inherent in this newspaper and somehow can hire privileged person person say to nicole hannah jones that my standard of individual rights are correct all she's arguing the standards of individual rights are merely array enshrinement ofen the hierarchy that took advantage of us in the first place is t really deep lel of guilt to prorated so much ofr institutional enemies that there's no waiting and a surrender caucus inside of the all of these institutions that's been taken advantage of. >> you believe in god and i g believe in god, give hope that we can get through this as a country and as a culture and is your hope strictly limited to the spear of this world or is your hope anchored in your faith. >> will my hope is always anchored in my faith god makes promises and he keeps them and as far as over the country, i think that americans are getting tired of this braided is boring and annoying and irritating and so far, the stuff inside of a mass movement to rejected somebody think of estimate is kind of coming. and i can't tell you how many people who with me on politics who have talk

nicole hannah jones won the pu pu pulitzer prize for "the 1619 project." i want to say this. i want to find out what's going on at howard right now because a lot of people remember at the beginning of the year you were denied tenure at your alma mater, north carolina. you decided to go onto howard where you are the chair of race and journalism. what did you learn from that experience, and how are things going at howard? >> well, what i learned is one, that you can do all of the things that we are told we are to do to be successful, and in the end, as a black woman, you can still be denied, and that we have to take those moments and use those moments to exercise our power, and to say that we'll be in control of our own destiny, and that's what i decided to do with howard, and i'm just so excited and honored to be there. >> yes, and i know that you're excited about this book right here. first of all, for folks who are not familiar, tell them about the significance and the importance of the year 1619. >> yes. so 1619 is the year that the first africans were s

is something that was put together in part by the new york times magazine and my colleague nicole hannah joneslayed a big role. and i think there are a bunch of different things going on in the project and in the controversy going around it and part of what it's trying to do, i think, is just basically, you know, have a more complete history of slavery and the black experience in america. and i think this is part, in general, of what, you know, the-- some of the ideas that are sort of in play in debates about education and changing ideas about history right now i think just that. we've had this sort of over simplyfied narrative about slavery and african-american history that, for instance, doesn't focus enough on, you know, the real nature of life under segregation, and what happened to african-americans after the civil war. and things like the controversy over confederate statues, for instance, i think are part of that where, you know, basically white america for a certain period of time told a story about american history that was mostly about sort of knitting the country back together after

pulitzer prize winning reporter covering racial injustice for the "new york times" magazine, nicole hannah jones9 project and editor of the book entitled "the 1619 project: a new origin story." let me say, nicole, congratulations. we've been talking over the past year, sometimes on the sideline. i've let you know i've always been a 1776 guy. i've been fascinated by this entire project. i think what i find most, i think, remarkable about the fact is despite the debates, the differences that all of us may have while having this debate, you have made 1619 stick in the minds, i think, of any american approaching history. whenever you talk about 1776, regardless of your ordering of it, 1619 is now going to be a part of that. talk about that. talk about this year and this book. >> well, thank you for having me on. yes, i've appreciated our many conversations, often over text, and all the times you've brought me on the show to talk about this work. so i'm just really excited that the book is in the world. you're right, that 1619, i think, is now a permanent part of our lexicon when we discuss history.