we welcome down nikolai petroff, a research we specialized in russian politics. works for the german institute for international and security affairs. you have been following these, the latest developments in russia. what do you make of putting in speech? so i would say is that's from seals page looks like it's just been prepared. sorry. it puts in a low drop that down. she has a way of the left side and i assume kids of the stand, the bowl that's pushing himself, these big ships. the reason why these conflict which was developing for several weeks, did they vegas blood, you shape precaution claims. his troops have entered russian territory, particularly in raul stuff. on dawn, what would be the significance of that? it's $3.00 to $6.00 days. a good fit. go say it's strong, we're military commands is going on and where the minister of defense engaged i go and the commands are obviously of the race and uh, get i see most of us, the men to deputy some police and the place also the symbolic from school from dawn is one of the biggest see to in the rush and the fact that was never come.

that is nikolai petroff senior research fellow at chatham house. many thanks for your time and your perspective, sir. my pleasure to dw special correspondent abraham e, as in keith earlier, she told me how ukrainians have been reacting to the news of this apparent rebellion in russia. while official reactions had been slow this morning, michael, but now are trickling down. we heard from a spokesperson of, of ukraine, the military intelligence andre use of who said the, what's happening and rush hour right now is a continuation of inter internal conflict that has been caused by russia's aggression on ukraine. and he said that this is a sign, but the ring team in russia is collapsing. and that things in his perspective will only intensify and get worse. there's also that tweet that we saw from the ukrainian ministry of defense a as soon as the event started unfolding, it didn't really, it wasn't really directly commenting on the events. but simply stated, we are watching and certainly people here in ukraine have plenty of reasons to be watching what'