graduate can't read their diploma. >> first of all, that's gnaw true, but joining me now is nikole hannah-jones'han jones, our very own writer for the reidout blog. someone on twitter tweeted they would pay to see tommy tuberville take the s.a.t. on camera, as would i. the thing he said is the thing that you keep hearing. that we have to ban this thing they have made up that they say is critical race theory that isn't because kids aren't learning to read and write, which is literally what they're learning. and they're saying that if i as a parent want my child to read the 1619 project or to learn the real history of black people in this country, they can stop my child from reading it. that's how i understand it. how do you understand these bans? >> yeah, so let's be clear that they are at once arguing two contradictory things which is we have to ban books but students can't read books anyway. you really wouldn't have to ban the books if students are graduating and can't even read their diploma because what are they going to do with these books in the first place. we know this isn't about honest

the city 19 project by nikole hannah-jones in your times magazine.aped american life, challenging patriotic ideals that many people have about america which, you guessed, it caused an uproar among conservatives. >> our struggles and striving's have made america more fair and more just. and as much democracy as we have, it has been borne of black resistance. in other words, the very people who are never supposed to be a part of our democracy, have played the most pivotal role in creating it. >> all right, that was a clip from a new six-part docuseries and habitation of the 1619 project, which is streaming now on hulu. one of the executive producers of the series joins us now. and it's good to see you my friend. >> lovely to see you. good to be here. >> i'm so glad we're finally having this conversation. i have been waiting, as we, know weeks to speak to about this. let's talk about this, because as we mentioned the republicans have been pretty forceful in their attack in their good critique of 1619 project the. i'm sure when you first learned about it

remember f the piece we read about the 1619 project that one of the most controversial claims, nikole hannah-jones madinhe opening was that one of the reasons the colonies fought the revotiary war was to upho slery, and in response to a request signed some prominent historians. you had the new york times kind of clarifying the statement to say that some of the colonists fought the revolutionary war t uphold svery. now, part of the reason this claim was controversial herschel is because it's a matter of terpretations that not all history ends agree upon. so some who hann-jes was really building on think the colonists in this period were very worried about t btish threatening the system chattel slavery in theolies or attempting to turn enslaved people against them in any kind of struggle that ty ght have now you have other historians who who kind of argue the colonists, elite colonists were not necessarily that worried about this the time a lot of the debate over this and how a role this is playing or how of mind this is for early colonists centers on british court ruling that's issued. 1772 referre

learned about it you were aware of the backlash and just how vitriolic the attacks were on nikole hannah-joness project on? why did you want to be involved? >> first of all, that wasn't my first impression. when i first listen to the podcast, when i first read the special magazine, the biggest thing i felt was seeing is a myth unlike american. very emotional. i felt very seen and so naturally i have worked in this realm around issues of judgment justice for a long time it was a dream project, to contribute to this nikole vision. >> what a different look it's one of the pushback so much on this vision, this narrative, this incredible piece of work? >> i think it's centered around power and the way that we see ourselves as americans. i think for many white americans, they still see the country as this place that is steeped in ideas of freedom and justice and equality. but, of course, we know the reality at that that left out a big portion of americans, in particular, black americans. so, i think that they're afraid of the reframing and what nikole has asked the americans to re-examine the countr