nina totenberg famously has -- is scalia. it happened. [laughter] and it was reported that the court did not permit audio of it. and then sorting doesn't approve the of the. and then it actually does release the audio. it releases the audio at the end of the term and releases the audio of the oral argument at the end of the week spent you can't get the handout audio. >> yes, he can. >> they have told me no. >> it's on the internet. [laughter] >> is it in the stuff that goes to the archives? >> yes, it is. >> no. it gets plucked off in september after the term. >> the court releases at the end of the term. >> not during the term. >> right. but it is out there. it's actually from. but one should be honest i think that while there is a slight technical advantage to the court of not releasing audio until the end of the week, prepare the files and everything in a very organized way, one principal consequence of is they're releasing the audio but just late enough so that it is not useful in stories on reporting by the court. >> there's no quest

i first started writing tom when he was -- when he was the attorney for nina totenberg and npr. as an upstart, as somebody who was not did not fit the mold as pete said, somebody who was cold calling the losers of cases in lower courts to see if they wanted to appeal for the supreme court, it was a model that hadn't been used before. and i remember interviewing another top advocate of the supreme -- before the supreme court and asked him about tommy and he said well, you know, you wouldn't want your heart surgery done by the heart surgeon who called you up and asked if you could do it. >> who was that? >> fellow by the name of john roberts, who became the chief justice. i think he's sort of eating his words on that. tom had the reputation of a real innovator in the stuffy world of the supreme court. and he was a good media source. so when the blog came along, he was -- he and amy were able to overcome some initial suspicions because this was a totally unique creature here. it was a blog about an institution by someone who interacted with that institution as an advocate. somebody