and when i visited niu and jakarta, my host sort of pointed upstairs to this iranian corner and it was packed out, everyone was in there. and perhaps showed my bias, as i expected to find basically a shrine to the glories of humany and the glories of this revolution. nothing of the sort. it was as if it had never happened. what it was was a library dedicated to persian contributions, to islamic history, showing the iranians know their audience incredibly well. national islamic university, grounded in the traditionalist movement in indonesia. so they're saying if you're into suvism, you need to regard iran as historically a major source of that. that's incredibly skillful and sophisticated soft power projection. >> this is a thing, too, is that peter really is getting at this. the iranians just have been -- they have to be more scrappy in their approach. they're more of the underdog. also, demographically speaking, 10 to 15% of muslims are shia. so you can't have an overtly or aggressively narrowly shia approach to religious soft power. and we can debate why this is. and i would say tha