the nom de guerre. how did that help? they didn't know who he was. >> they had a nom de guerre and started with that, and then they had this is critical, a warrantless wiretapping of a phone call and they made a connection and eventually figured out who this courier was who was going to see osama bin laden in pakistan. once they had his nom de guerre, had his fake name this co-trace who he was, where he was going. >> you just jumped over the fence with me, cliff. you jumped over the fence. how did we get knowing his nickname, his code name to his nom de guerre? to who he was? how did they find out who he was? >> that's where you get into the warrantless wiretap, the name was used, they checked the phone records and found that they believe they had now had the actual courier. they had a phone number and they had a name and they had somebody they could follow. here is the thing, chris, you can be against waterboarding, you can be against torture, you can be against other coercive techniques such as sleep deprivation if you w

. >> first they had his nom de guerre and then had to work out where he was. last year he was tracked to this particular count. that then led to the surveillance on the compound which eventually led them to bin laden. -- last year he was tracked to this particular compound. the pakistanis said the acquired information on the compound a couple years ago, but that they did not know osama bin laden was in there. >> thanks very much. let's get an update on this attrition in syria. security forces have clamped governmentdti- protesters. the u.s. has described the situation as barbaric. we are watching the situation from beirut because foreign journalists are not allowed into syria. the city of daraa had been the epicenter of where that was going on. >> yes, that remains the focal point. it's become a battle cry at around the country as people hold vigils or demonstrations. it is daraa that they are calling and holding up loaves of bread to show that that city is still under army control and is still cut off. they are continuing to pursue armed terrorist gangs, says

many lines in the bad leads given by these men and hundreds of other detainees eventually and nom de guerre came through that after years of continued intelligence work and operatives on the ground in pakistan and afghanistan finally led us to the real name and phone number and eventually osama bin laden's compound but despite numerous intelligence officials white house officials even former bush officials saying the. waterboarding did not lead us to a solid and lot and many on the right of continue with the lie that torture has been vindicated but it has perhaps been most shocking is that in last night's g.o.p. debate in south carolina the topic also came up in tim paul and he said the following . we need to do everything we can within our value systems and legal structures to make sure that doesn't happen i support and should share addition techniques on your limited circumstance. so it makes you wonder how far we've come as a country in the last ten years and not in a good way has it really become acceptable to support torture and a mainstream televised political debate and to criticize

. >> rose: and then it took a significant amount of time go from his nom de guerre to his real name and then a significant amount of time once they had the real name to find him. >> rose: >> oh, no, that's exactly right. this action, i can recall being briefed on this about four years ago. the folks from the counterterrorism center came in and briefed me on a new thread that they wanted t apply, that theyanted to approach, to investigating. it had to do with couriers and the departure point would b the information that we already had and you're right, charlie, it took about four years to get from that briefing to what happened yesterday. >> rose: how much when you were at the head of the c.i.a. in as much as you know today was through a desire, a serious desire without too much risk on the part of the united states to take him alive? >> i don't know that we ever got close to that circumstance so we didn't have the to make that kindover decision. killing or capturing him was a high... a high challenge for us, though. president bush would talk to me once a week when i went in the briefing

we're able to piece together additional information, get his -- the name he was known by, his nom nom de guerre and track it until we got to the compound in abbottabad and over the past six months with trying to ensure that we had the best visibility in terms of understanding what was happening at that compound, that body of evidence kept accumulating to the point when the president said, i want to have operations against this compound. i want to know what the pros and cons are of them, i want to have options, and i want to make sure we take into account the safety and security of the american people, of the americans that would be countnducting this information and making sure we're able to maximize the chance of mission success. the president made the decision and the results speak for themselves. >> you said that osama bin laden was actually involved in the firefight. it has been reported that he reached for a weapon. did he get his hand on a gun and did he fire himself? >> he was engaged in a firefight with those that entered the area of the house and whether or not he got off any rounds, i

his nom de guerre. and associate that with his real name and track it, until we got to the compound. >> reporter: each additional message provided new clues, including one last october, that remarkably focused on the flooding in abbottabad, the very city where bin laden's suspected hiding place, was already under surveillance. >> there were pieces of intelligence attached to every one of those broadcasts. every time that happened, those would be scoured for signs of where the broadcast was made. >> reporter: bin laden's many messages proved to be his undoing. and the cache of documents and computer hard drives recovered by the navy s.e.a.l.s during sunday's raid. >> what they are looking for are plans of attacks that had been submitted for his approval. and where the money comes from and where the money may be now sitting. >> reporter: pakistani officials say they have actually raided that compound in 2003, when it was under construction, but before bin laden moved in. in a column in today's "washington

over time, they were able to piece together information and get the name he was known by, his nom de guerre, the name that he was associated with, and the track until we got to the compound in islamabad, and over the past six months, trying to make sure we had the best visibility in terms of what is understood -- happening at that compound, the body of evidence kept accumulating to the point where the president said i want to rev operations against this compound. i want to know the pros and cons are. i want to have options, and i want to take into account the safety and security of the american people that are conducting this operation, that we look at it from the standpoint of limiting collateral damage and look at maximizing success. the president made the decision, and the results, i think, speak for themselves. >> osama bin laden was actually involved in the firefight. did he get his hands on a gun, and did he fire? >> he was engaged in a firefight with those that entered the area. whether or not he got off any rounds, i do not know. here is bin laden hill has been living in this millio