i mean, there are only two kinds of tv, fiction and nonfection, and the way everything breaks down after fascinating today because a lot of words no longer mean what i thought they meant like, you know, unscripted doesn't mean without a script anymore. and nonfiction doesn't necessarily mean the absence of fiction and reality i don't -- i don't even get me started i have no idea what reality means. >> what was the ultimate goal do you think? people get entertained by these shows, they learn something. >> yes. >> is there an overarching goal for you? what would make you the proudest if somebody watched your show and said this adjective at the end of it? >> well, authentic is the word. and i -- you know, i've seen what you do, and i love it because you're industry and so much of historic news comes from a place of authority. because you have to be correct. the stakes are high, you know, you want the facts right, you want the diagnosis to be right. but what's for sale today in a weird way is not authority. it's authenticity. and so, you know, to be believable today on tv in my view anyway y