norm ornstein, it's often said or been said by norbert mccarthy, a scholar at princeton, we are more polarized today than any time since the civil war. you're an expert of party systems. can you explain what it was about the political parties right before the civil war that led us to be so polarized then? >> so, you know, you go back through history and you see echos of so many of the divisions that are familiar to people today. if you look at the period leading up to the civil war, the party system, it was very much in flux. we had a wig party that ultimately became or transformed into the modern republican party. along the way we had a no nothing party that was anti-immigration. the ire and focus was on catholics and some elements of northern europeans in part. they had a president elected on the no nothing ticket, and ultimately it became the two parties that we know today or at least that we think we know today, democrats and republicans, and of course we had that overarching issue of race and slavery and the parties stood with that. for a while the democratic party had a pretty

norm ornstein has a really good proposal to supplement post office clebs with safe bollecti where you just leave your ballot the same as returning a library book, say, but with plenty of security. something like that i think is going to be really essential. but that's part of what trump is specifically declining to do, i.e., give money to state and local governments and of course he's making that a political issue about supposed democratic maladministration. >> donna edwards, as we wrap this up as well as, the challenge for nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, what do they do? they want to get this money, the snap money, the food nutrition program, all of these things desperately needed by millions of people and this piecemeal approach is all they're going to get now from the white house. >> well, i think that they actually will be able to come back to the bargaining table because i think even republicans are going to realize and especially as they go back to their states and their districts that this is simply not enough what the president is doing now is just a tiny little slice of what