last month we interviewed the head of the correction officers union, norm seabrook, who you know, and a young officer named ray calderon, who you know as well, viciously slashed by two inmates this past fall. they claim the new guidelines dangerous. i want you to listen to what reaction to it. >> absolutely. >> it's dangerous. it's out of control. and it's not safe. it's just not safe to return to work in those conditions. >> there is no -- there's no law and order inside the city's jail system. there's law and order when you commit a crime on the streets of new york. you get arrested, you come to rikers, but then inside rikers island, you can commit any crime you want and not be re-arrested for it and/or put in punitive segregation. >> what's your reaction to that? >> so, there is punitive segregation. you know, it has not been eliminated. segregation, and we need to find ways to safely manage this population -- also, the use of punitive seg, but other alternatives. the thing that norman seabrook and others talk about is, how do you manage inmates safely? so, punitive seg is a piece