you remember charlie o course the story jack -- >> charlie: by norman mailer and lots of other people jack henry abbott was not a serial killer. and jack henry abbott wrote a novel, wrote a book. it was absolute, i think, a masterpiece. and of course people want to believe in redemption and redemption is really critical to our society. and if we couldn't feel redeemed for the wrongs we've committed, and i'm not speaking about murder here but even the smallest wrong, obviously we would be the poorer for it. but as you know, abbott didn't even make his first nine in the halfway house before he killed someone down on the lower east side. >> charlie: what did he say to you about redemption? or what does it say toyou. >> it sayso me you just have to be really careful about letting people ... see i n't know how you make up for murde. >> charlie: bring them back to life. >> when you set yourself up as the final arbitrator of life a death, and you're not just, and you actually act on that, i don't know how you can be redeemed. i don't get it. >> charlie: do you favor then capital punishment,