and maybe norman thomas was, too. s right, that he was part of, he was pushing her and she was pushing him. i think it's much more organic, you know, you can appoint a summons a here's the difference. but i do think that politics is messy and makes painful compromises all the time. you know, nothing works according to plan, and everything has its limits. i mean, i think that evan thomas, the conscientious objector, he at one point got into a fight with norman about politics. he said i don't understand these moves are making, don't you understand the state has to respond, the state is going to respond, the president and democracy has a responsibility to act according to the popular majority? you know, your moves are muddleheaded. and norman wrote back and said we are not muddleheaded. we are doing all sorts of things. you know, do i think that norman was an effective socialist? art effective politician? i think fdr was right, he was a damn sight better politician than norman. i think the place where norman in the americ

and maybe norman thomas was, too. s right, that she was part of, he was pushing her and she was pushing him. i think it's much more than, you know, you can never point to someone and say there's the difference. but i do think that politics is messy and it makes painful compromises all the time. you know, nothing works according to plan, and everything has its limits. i think evan thomas, at one point got in a fight with norm. don't you understand that the state has to respond, the state is going to respond, the president and democracy over responsibility, you know, act ii popular majority. your moves are modeled by this. and norman wrote back we are not levelheaded. we are doing all sorts of things. you know, do i think that norman was an effective socialist? or ineffective politician? i think he was a damn sight better politician the norm. do i think there was a place for norman in the american political sentiment? yes, actually. i think they should be maybe more of those? i think so. i think that the health of the de

you know. >> there was a lot of fear. >> the one story i grew up knowing about norman thomas is partlyryphal but involved in conversation with franklin roosevelt, you want to tell the story?[[ó[ó >> one of norman's causes in thó 1930's he was working on behalfw sharecroppers in the self being murdered and other things are happening to them and there were drive-by shootings and unbelievable situations and when they try to unionize it got much, much worse and by the men carrying shotguns and you've got to do something, you've got to do something, and he goes and says you've got to do something this is just unconscionable. and he says you know what, norman, i'm a better politician than you are. nine of these people and they're doing good work done there and it's just going to take some time. and he says it can't wait, you know, and this is the response, you can't wait, you can't let this go on, this is the response to what was happening in the south. ultimately things did change and it did take a lot of time but may be in the 1930's and the social climate, economic climate wouldn't allo