cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle targeting the so-called rogue states north korea and iran are very much in the spotlight are these countries really a threat to the international community we are told both north korea and iran are impossible to negotiate with both deemed to be irrational states they ask for comprehensive security guarantees but face the very real threat of utter annihilation. to cross up north korea iran and much more i'm joined by richard white's in washington he's a senior fellow and director of the center for political military analysis at the hudson institute also in watched and we have zachary an assistant editor for the diplomat and in philadelphia we cross to dave lindorff he is an investigative reporter author of the book the case for impeachment and the founding editor of the online newspaper this can't be happening dot net all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want but richard if i can go to you what is a rogue state we hear the term all the time what is it it define. it's an out of fashion charm unde

the french's of the international system so we've seen a lot of changes and cooperation in north korea and iran and syria and others on missile developments the fear is now we're going to see this spill over into the nuclear around with north korea sharing its insights on how to make and nuclear warhead and functionally munition nuclear device and so randal had that capability without even having the test so that's one beans and why people tend to consider these countries together despite their differences zachary but they feel threatened by the west yeah i think that they're i think iran actually fears becoming north korea because it's you know a story a country and i think that the current regime wants to continue that so i had the. it's more of the fact that we've cut off all these avenues to. sort of nuclear cooperation even the civilian realm for iran that drives them towards north korea but i think i also think we should overstate the relationship because we don't really know exactly and i don't think we know exactly how much deep this cooperation goes and i think whatever however far it

north korea. i will say one thing that has not been reported. the influence of iran here. after 1979, khomeini came to north korea and brokered a deal with north korea. ever sips that time, pakistan has been trying to build up each other's nuclear alliances as a win/win situation. we can't look at this in a vacuum, just north korea. they are very much tied part and parse welwhat is going on in iran. and iran is watching how the united states handle this is situation. so we have to be very, very -- i think very strong in what we do. >> eric: iran is violating the u.n. security council mandates on the uranium enrichments. so really, are they operating on parallel paths in the sense that maybe north korea's seeing what will come first? and iran taking lessons on what they will do with their nuclear program? >> i think that's my judgment. iran is funding north korean's operations here. they are using north korea as a test to see how the united states will react. the more we try to negotiate and say, if you will stop what you are doing, we will throw more money at you, which is

iran is based on north korean missiles and technology which the north sold to iran. so in that sense, there's very deep cooperation. >> reporter: the big question, does north korea's helpxtend to nuclear capability? on capitol hill tuesday, the navy's top commander in the pacific wouldn't elaborate. >> i think iran would be greatly advantaged if north korea helps them. >> is that help on going. >> i can't give you verification of that in this form? >> reporter: over the weekend, major powers wrapped up talks with iran, with no progress getting iran to prove whether its nuclear program is for power plants or weapons. so while u.s. diplomats keep an eye on both countries, the pentagon is flexing military muscle. the navy just announced plans to deploy a laser weapon. new quick reaction capability to potential targets in the persian gulf meaning iranian drones or gun boats. jill doherty, cnn, london. >> no one has more leverage in north korea than china. david mckenzie is in beijing with a closer look. >> reporter: firing nuclear rhetoric. armies at the ready. missile defense systems in downtown tokyo. who can bring down the temperature? >> there is one power that can end

iran is based on north korean missiles and technology which the north sold to iran. so in that sense, there's very deep cooperation. >> reporter: the big question, does north korea's helpar capability? on capitol hill tuesday, the navy's top commander in the pacific wouldn't elaborate. >> i think iran would be greatly advantaged if north korea helps them. >> is that help on going. >> i can't give you verification of that in this form? >> reporter: over the weekend, major powers wrapped up talks with iran, with no progress getting iran to prove whether its nuclear program is for power plants or weapons. so while u.s. diplomats keep an eye on both countries, the pentagon is flexing military muscle. the navy just announced plans to deploy a laser weapon. new quick reaction capability to potential targets in the persian gulf meaning iranian drones or drill boats. jill doherty, cnn, london. >> no one has more leverage in north korea than china. david mckenzie is in beijing with a closer look. >> reporter: firing nuclear rhetoric. armies at the ready. missile defense systems in downtown tokyo. who can bring down the temperature? >> there is one power that can end this story

government says the british people are surely fearful of a potential attack from north korea and iran is that not realistic it could be a target. you know i don't think it's realistic i think that the majority of british people are very concerned about the idea of spending this amount of money on a new generation of nuclear weapons and then you ask the question why are we targeted is it because we've got. or is it for some other reason many other countries the world manage perfectly well without nuclear weapons and not themselves under threat or under target what we need rapid is an international engagement with iran not the vilification of iran and its people but in gauging with iran likewise with north korea and i hope that a country will take the initiative actually talking to north korea rather than the way in which the rhetoric is being ratcheted up all around i have criticisms of north korea as i'm sure everybody else does but i don't want to see them wasting their resources on nuclear weapons i don't want to see a nuclear war breaking out in the korean peninsula or anywhere els

involving the cooperation between north korea and iran. ll dougherty is investigating it. we will share that information with you tomorrow on our special edition of the situation room. the crisis in north korea. this connection between north korea cooperating with iran on nuclear weapons, what's going on. stay with us. tomorrow jill dougherty's report coming up. meanwhile, an unnerving message from north korea warning all foreigners to flee south korea because war may be imminent. what's going on. david mckenzie is joining us from beijing. david, china has enormous influence we're told in north korea. are they engaging in some quiet diplomacy right now? >> reporter: well, wolf, they're engaging in quiet diplomacy, but not out in the open. even though north korea threatened foreigners in south korea, there are many foreigners, including chinese there, and the chinese foreign ministry said that they don't want war, they want peace. they don't want tensions, they want dialogue. no open criticisms of north korea. certainly not racheting up in p

thankfully some have opposed this measure namely, north korea, iran and syria and they've been joinedone brave voice. >> the national rifle association has lobbied against the treaty. >> stephen: that's right the nra has officially joined what i call the axis of freedom. [ laughter ] of course -- [cheers and applause] of course, the u.n. is trying to convince us that gun control will make us safer. according to u.n. secretary general ban key moon the treaty will help to keep terrorists and criminals and their like from acquiring deadly arms. you might think, stephen, sounds look a good idea because i don't want evil people to have guns. well, greg -- to make it easy i've named you all greg. [ laughter ] if you wanted to take guns away from all evil people, i suppose would you start with hitler, right? pretty bad guy. guess what? he shot him swfl a gun. if you want to take away his gun you are really saying you wish hitler were still alive. that's your position, greg. that's what is going on with the u.n. gun grabbers. meanwhile back in washington the senate is opening debate tomorrow

. >> gregg: and iran during this two-week period of time, so call crisis in north korea, iran continues ui rain yun production.away from td talks on april 6th, international meetings there and then the next day, april 7th a top lawmaker says iran will never halt its nuclear development program. i suspect tehran has got to be loving the distraction offered by pyongyang? >> maybe john kerry can set up another prolonged talks that lead to nothing and go and put words in the mouths of our adversaries saying he is bringing pressure to iran. china is not putting pressure on north korea. the executive branch had more bureaucrats staffing various other principals of government and yet washington cannot chew gum and walk at the same time. just a as the north korean threat emerged when the washington was focused on the middle east, now it seems the opposite can happen. nowhere, not with north korea, not with iran does anyone in the washington establishment has something new in the play books that can destabilizize the regimes. they say they have a weaponized nuclear warhead. only way we're going

this connection between north korea, cooperating with iran, on nuclear weapons, what's going on, stay tomorrow. jill dougherty's report coming up. >>> and an unnerving message of north korea warning all visitors to flee south korea. what's going on? david mckenzie is joining us from beijing. david, china has enormous influence we are told in north korea. are they engaging in some quiet diplomacy right now? >> well, wolf, they're engaging in quiet diplomacy, certainly, but not out in the open. even though north korea threatened foreigners in south korea, there are many foreigners including chinese there and the chinese foreign ministry said they want peace, they don't want tensions, they want dialogue. no open criticism of north korea so certainly not ratcheting up in public any kind of pressure on north korea. that's many lawmakers in washington frustrated because, obviously they say china could be a huge amount of leverage on the north korean regime. wolf? >> what about the u.s./china level of cooperation with north korea is concerned? we know john kerry is heading toward beijing. wh

made other moves to protect a possible attack by north korea, some critics are charging the administration is not paying nearly enough attention to iran. >> north korea is a problem, but iran is the immediate threat. it's kind of like, if your house so fire and you call 911, you want the fireman to come to your house and not go to your neighbor's house. >> white house officials knows it was top of his agenda to israel last month. >> i would say, we have not taken any focus of iran. >> yesterday defense secretary chuck hagel suggested that iran and north korea are pretty equal threats. neither has nuclear weapons yet but both are trying and could you can succeed which is why hagel said it's very dangerous situation. >> bret: thank you. there are a lot of concerns right now about big brother and big government. that leads us tonight to big data. katherine heritage on finding what may be the next big threat to your privacy. >> reporter: utah, 25 miles due south of salt lake city, a massive construction project is nearing completion. the heavily secured site belongs to the nsa, the locals call it the spy center. nsa says the utah data cen

north korea, iran and syria voted against. russia, china and 21 other nations abstained. the treaty bans transfers of weapons if they violate u.n. arms embark goes or promote acts of the men no side, crimes against humanity or war crimes. the treaty requires member states to submit arms trade records to the united nations every year. >> translator: what's significant here is they recognize the need to be transparent and accountable in regulating international trade and arms. those weapons are related to a lot of crimes in many countries. >> it's estimated conventional weapons kill half a million civilians every year. the treaty will take effect after 50 countries ratify it. a lot will depend on which nations ratify it. >>> chinese health authorities have announced that four more people have been infected with a new strain of the avian flu virus. this races the total of known cases to seven. health officials say that the four are from an area near shanghai. they complained of flu and coughing in mid march. tests confirm they contracted the h 7 n 9 virus strain. all are in

struggling to contain nuclear threats from north korea, iran. despite four years of diplomacy, the isolated nations remain resistant to stand down on their nuclear programs. >>> when you're hundreds of stories above manhattan, the view can't be too shabby. one world trade center is still under construction, but the new york port authority revealed a picture. the 100th florida is set to open in 2015. >>> rudy salita loves to take rides on his bike. what's really unusual is who he likes to take with him. 1-month-old m.j. loved long bike rides perched on his owner's shoulders. and with cat cuddling up to his neck, not scared of moving in the streets either. look at him. didn't even fall down. the inseparable duo zipped through every part of the city, grabbing some much needed fresh air and seeing the sights by city hall or cruising through old city. these two are quite the pair. >> he needs a cat helmet. >>> bubba watson seems to have a lot of free time on his hands. bubba's hover, an impressive hovercraft/golf cart hybrid, he won't need roads. it'

when we return, what intelligence does the president get every single morning about iran, about north korea. we have the experts and scoops >> with all the unpredictable moves by iran and north korea, how good is our spy craft? does our c.i.a. know enough to tell the president how big a threat they pose? his senate confirmation hearing, john brennan said both on getting hell bent nuclear weapons and delivering them. andegimes in tehran p'yongyang remain bent on pursuing nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missile delivery systems rather ofn meeting basic needs their people. chris: let's look at north korea, the guy with the bad haircut. is he really the boss in making firingision on actually off a missile or whatever games he's up to? does he make those calls? the toughest things about the north korea problem and also the iran problem is intelligence about how decisions are made at the very top is so thin. we don't understand intentions, we really don't have much transparency into the personality of kim jong un, how it fits with the military leadership, especially with the new le

not only for north korea, but for iran and other would-be proliferators as well. i think what is really going on here is that north korea is trying to get itself accepted as a nuclear weapons state. that get us and everyone else to acknowledge they have tested three devices. they are a nuclear weapon state. we need to lift sanctions. allow them to return to the international community. that's obviously something that would have a major impact for iran as well. that is why our erratic behavior showing inconsistency and hesitancy a concern simply fuels those in north korea and iran and elsewhere that say if you push ahead hard enough, if you have the determination, you, too, can have nuclear weapons. that is a terrible lesson for proliferators around the world to learn. >> eric: well, nuclear talks on iran just ended without any success again. apparently what lesson is there for iran in what is happening with north korea >> well, i think it shows that ten years of talking to the west brought them ten years of time. and that the personal 5 members of the -- perm 5 mem

north korea. so this is not just one country, not just two countries, this is three countries; china, iran and northt do you make of it? the significance of the story in north korea not only what it means for the region, but for other places like iran. >> well, jenna, i think that north korea is exhibit a about what happens when a rogue regime -- by the way, with a bankrupt economy and a bankrupt ideology -- gains nuclear weapons, advanced ballistic missile technology and threatens the united states, nettens the world -- threatens the world. if you don't like north korea, you're going to hate iran because iran is an energy superpower with an ideology that appeals to tens of millions of the world's faithful. and they are an aggressive power. they want to seek regional and global hegemonny. and so an iran that is dashing to an undetectable nuclear breakout in 15 months suggests we're going to be facing an even more profound national security challenge in the coming year. jenna: so if what we're witnessing right now, mark, is somehow a case study for what we might see for rapp, what do we -- for iran,

beyond the pale, irredeemable, to outlier state, the connotation was that if the states -- north korea and irancome into compliance with international obligations, there is a pathway for reintegration into the system. the obama administration clearly laid that out. for north korea and as well as iran, the nuclear issue is a proxy for the broader question of how they relate to the outside world. there are tangible economic benefits of integration. they also carry the risk of political contagion that could undermine the regime. those political concerns have trumped the economic incentives. it is that policy arc from rogue to outlier that i deal with in this book. host: you begin your book by outlining, defining what an outlier is. in the oxford dictionary, it is what? .uest: someone at the periphery the question is, how can the states come in from the cold? the connotation was, there was no pathway. outlier shifts the onus to the states to make a choice. president obama has used these words, choice, pathway. at one point he pointed to the burmese transition as an example the north korea might fol

if they've been demagogue you for something i agree with a rocket ok go ahead with iran and north korea iran north korea and about thirty five senators right now oppose this treaty everybody else supports it but let me just get to the key point the united states already has a system of export control laws that's quite good that is consistent with this treaty as do a lot of the european countries and some other major exporters so the united states ratification of the treaty is not so important as having president obama signed the treaty and signature by obama does not require senate advice and consent the treaty will enter into force when fifty countries ratify and i think that is a quite easy bar to achieve within the next one to two years and then the treaty will begin to have full effect on the states that have signed signed the treaty so in my view the senate's views on this are actually not so important for the overall effect of this treaty on the international arms trade and we how important not so important except they're the ones who write the laws and we jump in in london and. if any

the week you're watching the weekly here on ars he was me you know thanks for being with us north korea iran top its war a trick this week announcing its army is now officially also wise to wage a nuclear attack on the u.s. the warning was followed by reports pyongyang moved to ballistic missiles to its east coast north korea is saying it's on actions are aimed at countering aggression by washington which has built up its military presence in the region as the crisis deepens so do downs that pyongyang is capable of turning its war was into action unlike the u.s. she's going to shoot down explains. to north korea's bellicose threats washington responds with an even more intense buildup of military power in the region to that north korea responds with even more threats even though defense secretary chuck hagel called north korea real and clear danger the white house says they haven't seen any large scale movements from north korean military forces suggesting that it may be just rhetoric but while north korea talks washington acts apart from f. twenty two fighter jets and other bombers that it

what's the relationship between north korea and iran? >> certainly there has been some cooperation on the technical side. we know that north korea has actually shared some information about iran with regard to its nuclear program. but i think iran is probably watching this situation very closely. i think both regimes are interested in nuclear weapons as the ultimate means of ensuring that the... that their current regimes, dictatorial regimes survive and stay in power. i wouldn't be surprised if tehran is taking notes on how north korea is dealt with in this current situation. >> charlie: they're looking more at how we respond than what the north koreans do? >> i think both. i think they're looking to see what kind of reaction do the various actions engender, what is successful, what is not successful on the part of pyongyang. >> charlie: do we know... how good is our intelligence because, as you know, we had a day there in which intelligence agencies were saying different things and finally the head of the d.n.i. had to step forward and

the three nations that said no are iran, syria and north korea. and now because of the republicans and some conservative democrats, us too. iran, syria, north korea and the united states. conspiracy theories can be fun. they make the world seem exciting and like there is a secret special meaning to things that only you know about if you're smart enough to understand how things really work. conspiracy theories can be fun. but when they start seeping into the way one of our two political parties approaches basics of governing, they're less fun. maybe we should give the lizard people a shot at running things around here. maybe they would do a better job. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. have a great night. >>> tonight we finally have some good news about guns. we have a video that will make you laugh, make you cry, and make you feel lucky to live in the united states of america. and we have a president who is trying to change congress. oh. and did i mention we have martin short? >>> president obama is at a democratic fund-rai