they've been demagogue you for something i agree with a rocket ok go ahead with iran and north korea iran north korea and about thirty five senators right now oppose this treaty everybody else supports it but let me just get to the key point the united states already has a system of export control laws that's quite good that is consistent with this treaty as do a lot of the european countries and some other major exporters so the united states ratification of the treaty is not so important as having president obama signed the treaty and signature by obama does not require senate advice and consent the treaty will enter into force when fifty countries ratify and i think that is a quite easy bar to achieve within the next one to two years and then the treaty will begin to have full effect on the states that have signed signed the treaty so in my view the senate's views on this are actually not so important for the overall effect of this treaty on the international arms trade and we how important not so important except they're the ones who write the laws and we jump in in london and. if anyone's going

north korea. i will say one thing that has not been reported. the influence of iran here. after 1979, khomeini came to north korea and brokered a deal with north korea. ever sips that time, pakistan has been trying to build up each other's nuclear alliances as a win/win situation. we can't look at this in a vacuum, just north korea. they are very much tied part and parse welwhat is going on in iran. and iran is watching how the united states handle this is situation. so we have to be very, very -- i think very strong in what we do. >> eric: iran is violating the u.n. security council mandates on the uranium enrichments. so really, are they operating on parallel paths in the sense that maybe north korea's seeing what will come first? and iran taking lessons on what they will do with their nuclear program? >> i think that's my judgment. iran is funding north korean's operations here. they are using north korea as a test to see how the united states will react. the more we try to negotiate and say, if you will stop what you are doing, we will throw more money at you, which is what they have done in the past, that's a good sign to iran that we wil

believes iran and north korea may be working together on weapons. >>> there are new and ominous developments involving the cooperation between north koreand iran. jill dougherty is investigating it. we will share that information with you tomorrow on our special edition of the situation room. the crisis in north korea. this connection between north korea cooperating with iran on nuclear weapons, what's going on. stay with us. tomorrow jill dougherty's report coming up. meanwhile, an unnerving message from north korea warning all foreigners to flee south korea because war may be imminent. what's going on. david mckenzie is joining us from beijing. david, china has enormous influence we're told in north korea. are they engaging in some quiet diplomacy right now? >> reporter: well, wolf, they're engaging in quiet diplomacy, but not out in the open. even though north korea threatened foreigners in south korea, there are many foreigners, including chinese there, and the chinese foreign ministry said that they don't want war, they want peace. they don't want tensions, they want dialogue. no open criticisms of north korea. certainly not rachet

iran. u.s. military officials believe pyongyang and tehran may collaborate on their nuclear programs. leaked diplomatic cables say north korea sold missiles to iran. north korea shows off its weapons, at least in part it seems, for cash. richard engel, nbc news, seoul. >>> our chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell has also just arrived in seoul tonight. that's because secretary of state john kerry is due to arrive just hours from now. andrea, with things so hot, it seems almost quaint, a throwback to ask if there could be diplomatic talks, a diplomatic solution to this. >> reporter: i think the key to everything is china. we don't know really what kim jong un really wants. but the view is that maybe this is just, as richard has been reporting, trying to show off his military strength and possibly leading to economic reform. china is the only country that can pressure him. secretary kerry was in london meeting with all the foreign ministers, even the russians getting on board on this. and, brian, they are all saying he's got to come here to seoul. they hope he can try to reinforce the commitment to the south koreans so they will not do anything p

iran. u.s. military officials believe pyongyang and tehran may collaborate on their nuclear programs. leaked diplomatic cables say north korea sold missiles to iran. north korea shows off its weapons, at least in part it seems, for cash. richard engel, nbc news, seoul. >>> up next, the california lottery claims the powerball is a big boone to local schools, but is that how the ball bounces? >> to say it's saving our schools is giving the wrong message. >> a reality check on where all that money is going. >>> plus, does apple owe you? the company settles a mega million dollar lawsuit. find out if you can expect to get anything back. >>> a major debut on the way at the san francisco zoo. when you can see this tiger cub in person. back in a moment. >>> so what's the real story? all this talk about the powerball lottery, does it help our public schools? we've had record lotto sales since becoming the new powerball member. so in theory, this should be a big win for public education. sam brock investigates the claim that powerball will provide a shot in the arm for our schools. >> reporter: with the debut of powerball in california this week, you practically can't

kerry said that what happens with respect to north korea can affect iran and what happens with iran can affect north korea. what's the relationship between north korea and iran? >> certainly there has been some cooperation on the technical side. we know that north korea has actually shared some information about iran with regard to its nuclear program. but i think iran is probably watching this situation very closely. i think both regimes are interested in nuclear weapons as the ultimate means of ensuring that the... that their current regimes, dictatorial regimes survive and stay in power. i wouldn't be surprised if tehran is taking notes on how north korea is dealt with in this current situation. >> charlie: they're looking more at how we respond than what the north koreans do? >> i think both. i think they're looking to see what kind of reaction do the various actions engender, what is successful, what is not successful on the part of pyongyang. >> charlie: do we know... how good is our intelligence because, as you know, we had a day there in which intelligence agencies were saying different things and finally the head of the d.n.i. had to

did you say iran believes it is in a different lace the north korea -- didn't you say iran believes it is in a different place than north korea or --? >> north korea has already tested and detonated nuclear devices. iran is in pursuit of the nuclear weapons capability. they see themselves at a different point than the north koreans. but clearly they have ambitions in the middle east region that go back millennia and they are trying to build upon their past. they are looking at what is going on but put themselves in a different lace than the north koreans. >> what do you make of them putting in more sophisticated centrifuges in their public announcement? what are they trying to tell the international community when they do that? >> it just demonstrates they have not been dissuaded from continuing on this path to more sophisticated centrifuges. it is an indication of their determination but also the seriousness of the situation. >> what would be your assessment of the time between weaponization and being able to detonation and weaponization of a nuclear device? do you have any sense of that? i know the president said a year. i'

north korea missile. >> reporter: he says he feels the u.s. took their eye off the ball with north korea. focusing too much instead on the middle east, and on iran's nuclear intentions. >> miscalculation, featuring united states, norththe conflict. >> reporter: the patriot anti-missile batteries as much a symbol of reassurance of people like him, as a message of readiness for north korea's defiant young leader. wolf, if there is a musudan missile that north korea is planning to test, it would be the first tirm they have tested one of those. the concern for japan is if it malfunctions, which has happened in the past in north korean missile tests, there's a chance ta debris could fall down onto japanese soil. that is, of course, what the japanese self-defense forces have to be prepared for. >> obviously nervousness in tokyo right now. diana magna reporting. let's look at possible scenarios, where north korea might fire a missile and what kind of response that would trigger from the united states and its allies. tom foreman is over at the magic wall with the retired u.s. army general james "spider" marks. what are you guys seeing? >> we've been gaming this out all afternoon. here's north korea up here, south korea. the

their conduct, but you could not have two states that are more different than a run a north korea. -- iran and north korean is viewed -- we are in the current crisis, as a top-tier foreign-policy issue. iran is viewed as a more dynamic threat because it has the oil revenue behind it. dicalso has this radi ideology behind it. is playing its one card to command attention, shake down how they can leverage these capabilities to keep the regime going. host: robert litvak is the author of "outlier states" and with the woodrow wilson center here in washington, d.c.. thank you for your time and perspective. subject of athe skit last night on nbc's " saturday night live ticket which began with this spoof on c-span. >> next on c-span, tensions in the north korean insula -- peninsula. kim jong-un appeared before the nation. his address was carried live on national television. >> hello, greetings to the citizens of the people of north korea. >> thanks to "saturday night live." .hris solazyme, -- cillizza, will be joining us. "newsmakers" is coming up next. our guest is larry pratt. ourght at 6:30 and 9:30, conversati

north korea. even if you discount north korea, they are containable, they with proliferate weapons of mass destruction and guess what, iran and north korea have h historic relationships and north korea is short of cash and could sell the weapons to terrorist groups. the threat of north korea is very real. >> chris: whey do you think he is ratcheting up attention? >> helps secure his situation at home. maybe that is true. but the degree to which, you know, he might think he is playing cute games like his father and grandfather did i guess and he can pull back at the key moment. but south korea and japan are sitting there -- they have killed south koreans two or three years ago. killed 45 south korean sailors, attacked a ship. japan, they loved lobbed a mir japan. it's dangerous. >> chris: north korea likes to bluster and saber rattle but even by their standards this is extreme what is going on now. that is the concern particularly with south korea if you have been in seoul it is an hour's drive, they would be right on the frontline. the danger is it gets out of hand? >> the danger is it gets out of hand and that crazy map which show

north korea. so this is not just one country, not just two countries, this is three countries; china, iran and north korea. jenna: mark, what do you make of it? the significance of the story in northmeans for the region, but for other places like iran. >> well, jenna, i think that north korea is exhibit a about what happens when a rogue regime -- by the way, with a bankrupt economy and a bankrupt ideology -- gains nuclear weapons, advanced ballistic missile technology and threatens the united states, nettens the world -- threatens the world. if you don't like north korea, you're going to hate iran because iran is an energy superpower with an ideology that appeals to tens of millions of the world's faithful. and they are an aggressive power. they want to seek regional and global hegemonny. and so an iran that is dashing to an undetectable nuclear breakout in 15 months suggests we're going to be facing an even more profound national security challenge in the coming year. jenna: so if what we're witnessing right now, mark, is somehow a case study for what we might see for rapp, what do we -- for iran, what do we do about it? >> well, we have to stop iran from developing nuclear weapo

north korea and iran are very much in the spotlight are these countries really a threat to the international community we are told both north korea and iran are impossible to negotiate with both deemed to be irrational states they ask for comprehensive security guarantees but face the very real threat of utter annihilation. to cross up north korea iran and much more i'm joined by richard white's in washington he's a senior fellow and director of the center for political military analysis at the hudson institute also in watched and we have zachary an assistant editor for the diplomat and in philadelphia we cross to dave lindorff he is an investigative reporter author of the book the case for impeachment and the founding editor of the online newspaper this can't be happening dot net all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want but richard if i can go to you what is a rogue state we hear the term all the time what is it it define. it's an out of fashion charm under the bush administration that used the term rogue state to describe states which whose behavior was so. so it redeemable that they were considered to be equivalent of a criminal state and that was a ran that was iraq under sadam hussein and that was north korea where those of the three common ones other countries went in

iran and north korea. think about it. north korea'sssful ballistic missile launch in december could be based on what iran's capabilities. they were able to put a sallite into orbit a few years ago and now north korea has a nuclear weapons capability and i think iran would be interested in that as well. melissa: china, japan, south korea among our biggest trading partners. we're always talking about how the economy in china is holding up so many of our companies here in the u.s. what could be a ripple effect in the region here as this situation and the rhetoric seems to really spiral out of control? >> i mean i'm not a business person but i understand that, you know, capital is a coward and it will flee. and you have some of the largest economies in the world in northeast asia. china number two. obviously u.s. number one. japan, number three or four. uth korea, 10 or 12. taiwan, 12 or 14. i mean there's a lot going on in at that part of the world and obviously instability wouldn't be good for business. this is something people have to b

iran, about north korea. we have the experts and scoops >> with all the unpredictable moves by iran and north korea, how good is our spy craft? does our c.i.a. know enough to tell the president how big a threat they pose? his senate confirmation hearing, john brennan said both on getting hell bent nuclear weapons and delivering them. andegimes in tehran p'yongyang remain bent on pursuing nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missile delivery systems rather ofn meeting basic needs their people. chris: let's look at north korea, the guy with the bad haircut. is he really the boss in making firingision on actually off a missile or whatever games he's up to? does he make those calls? the toughest things about the north korea problem and also the iran problem is intelligence about how decisions are made at the very top is so thin. we don't understand intentions, we really don't have much transparency into the personality of kim jong un, how it fits with the military leadership, especially with the new leader like kim jong un gone through a cycle of crisis, guessing how he's going to end this one is ifficu

north korea will not be accepted as a nuclear power. the rhetoric that we are hearing from north korea is simply unacceptable by any standard. >> north korea is clearly a problem but iranthe immediate threat. >> he probably sent a thank you note jim jong un, thanks to you i'm going to keep enriching uranium. >> bret: secretary kerry in seoul today. as tensions rise but it seems like they do. let's bring in the panel, steve hayes, juan williams and charles krauthammer. steve, where are we today? what about secretary kerr have i is saying and doing over there, is anything happening? >> it's hard to know exactly what he is doing behind the scenes but public rhetoric sounds like the rhetoric have used about north korea diplomats going back almost two decades now. it's the same thing from the bush administration, particularly in the second term and it's consistent with what we've heard from the obama administration. this blustering rhetoric is unacceptable if north korea continues or launch a missile, they conduct another nuke test it will mean they are further isolated. if you are in north korea do you believe this. we haven't seen further isolation. we haven't seen any ac

iran and north korea. the hype around north korea's nuclear threats has been fueled by reports that pyongyang has now moved a second mid range missile to east coast of the u.s. a u.n. secretary general. banki moon believes the north has gone too far and has to change course in washington says it's taking quote old necessary precautions because the fears of an impending war seem to grow so does the chorus of those saying it's the last thing both countries want john fether is a co-director of foreign policy in focus north korea basically is trying to get the united states back to the negotiating table and its missile range is frankly not reliable nor long enough to make it to the u.s. positions if these were to rational actors i would say they would have already made that decision to back down unfortunately in a situation like this it's really not rationality which governs the actions of the players there were sponsoring two sometimes unconscious cues sometimes to non-rational factors but you know north korea is not a suicidal regime and of course the united states is not particularly interested in any kind

north korea missile. >> reporter: he says he feels the u.s. took their eye off the ball with north korea. focusing too much instead on the middle east, and on iran's nuclear intentions. >> miscalculation, featuring united states, northe patriot anti-missile batteries as much a symbol of reassurance of people like him, as a message of readiness for north korea's defiant young leader. wolf, if there is a musudan missile that north korea is planning to test, it would be the first tirm they have tested one of those. the concern for japan is if it malfunctions, which has happened in the past in north korean missile tests, there's a chance ta debris could fall down onto japanese soil. that is, of course, what the japanese self-defense forces have to be prepared for. >> obviously nervousness in tokyo right now. diana magna reporting. let's look at possible scenarios, where north korea might fire a missile and what kind of response that would trigger from the united states and its allies. tom foreman is over at the magic wall with the retired u.s. army general james "spider" marks. what are you guys seeing? >> we've been gaming this out all afternoon. here's north korea up here, south korea. the two capitals. let's say nort

north korea iran and other things rogue. which or do you think the united states really is interested in negotiations with iran and north korea really. i think under this administration yes i would agree that everything being equal. better or the you give us preference would be for a change in their regime but most of the other countries that are involved in these negotiations they want just a change in these policies and i think the a bomb ministration is not willing to use military force or take strenuous acts to secure regime change i think they would want to see it in cap'n internally evolved over time and i think i'd suspect that these two regimes they are a bit out bit of outliers if you will from the global trend so i think over time both of them will change it's just a question of when ok and zachary you agree with that because the regime in iran isn't going to surrender it's not going to surrender no no and i don't know if it's going anywhere i mean i think it over the long run maybe but i don't think that the islamic republic has so much opposition that it's the going anywhere so it's also china and all its borders now china is in central asia obviously it's in southern iraq and it's right next to iran on the east coast of its border so i think that there is so that it's going to be probably become iran's are going to security threat of the could next decade or so and so i do think it's lives on public right still be there in ten years and you can change many times but i think us going to end of a deal with the at some point and i don't think going to surrender i think each side is going to give in i don't know that i have an obama or successor but i think that it should have been sort of there than later dave in philadelphia go ahead jump in. well i would hope that's right i think there are forces that could lead to a conflict between the u.s. and iran and i would hate to see it. and i think that. you know my my hope is that there will be some kind of ritual response to the fact that arin is a nuclear capable power and hopefully won't get a bomb but will always have that capability and the u.s. is going to have to accept that it's going to require standing up to is really concerned including in israel there's there's a lot of argument against going to war you know to attacking iran so i'm. cautiously optimistic that this is going to be worked out in a rational way but let's be clear that there's a recession melody on both sides of me there are neither country is fully fully grant you know but neither one is irrational richard i like that you agree or disagree it's a bit hard to get a definition of rationality i wanted to actually reminds i wanted to make a point or earlier which was that one reason why these countries are categorized together is that they do interact on sort of the french's of the international system so we've seen a lot of changes and cooperation in north korea and iran and syria and others on missile developments the fear is now we're going to see this spill over into the nuclear around with north korea sharing its insights on how to make and nuclear warhead and functionally munition nuclear device and so randal had that capability without even having the test so that's one beans and why people tend to consider these countries together despite their differences zachary but they feel threatened by the west yeah i think that they're i think iran actually fears becoming north korea because it's you know a story a country and i think that the current regime wants to continue that so i had the. it's more of the fact that we've cut off all these avenues to. sort of nuclear cooperation even the civilian realm for iran that drives them towards north korea but i think i also think we should overstate the relationship because we don't really know exactly and i don't think we know exactly how much deep this cooperation goes and i think whatever

iran, syria and north korea. and now because of the republicans and some conservative democrats, us too. iran, syria, north korea and the united states. conspiracy theories can be fun. they make the world seem exciting and like there is a secret special meaning to things that only you know about if you're smart enough to understand how things really work. conspiracy theories can be fun. but when they start seeping into the way one of our two political parties approaches basics of governing, they're less fun. maybe we should give the lizard people a shot at running things around here. maybe they would do a better job. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. have a great night. >>> tonight we finally have some good news about guns. we have a video that will make you laugh, make you cry, and make you feel lucky to live in the united states of america. and we have a president who is trying to change congress. oh. and did i mention we have martin short? >>> president obama is at a democratic fund-raiser in california. >> president obama's west coast cash stash. >> main focus is politics and getting

north korea, and we've learned, guess what, it didn't go well. >>> kim jong-un's criminal network, the smuggling operation that would make tony soprano proud. >>> new fears about an axis of evil. is north korea helping iran develop nuclear weapons? >>> i'm wolf blitzer. and this is a "situation room" special report, northorean crisis. >>> in north korea, right now, the window is wide open for a missile test literally at any moment. we're told u.s. intelligence suggests there may be multiple launches. the defense secretary of the united states, chuck hagel, is warning that kim jong-un is skating very close to a dangerous line. and he promises the united states will be ready. >> as we have said many times, our country is fully prepared to deal with any contingency, any action that north korea may take, or any provocation that they may instigate. and we have contingencies prepared to do that. >> let's bring in our chief international correspondent, christiane amanpour, the anchor of amanpour that airs on cnn international, also our own fareed zakaria, host of fareed zakaria gps which airs on cnn as well. christiane, you and i know chuck hagel, fareed, you know chuck hagel. he is not a guy who speaks provocatively without specific warning, without specific reason. when i heard what he was saying, i sensed

north korea, and we've learned, guess what, it didn't go well. >>> kim jong-un's criminal network, the smuggling operation that would make tony soprano proud. >>> new fears about an axis of evil. is north korea helping iran develop nuclear weapons. >>> i'm wolf blitzer. and this is a "situation room" special report, northis. >>> in north korea, right now, the window is wide open for a missile test literally at any moment. we're told u.s. intelligence suggests there may be multiple launches. the defense secretary of the united states, chuck hagel, is warning that kim jong-un is standing very close to a dangerous line and promises the united states will be ready. >> as we have said many times, our country is fully prepared to deal with any contingency, any action that north korea may take, or any provocation that they may instigate. and we have contingencies prepared to do that. >> let's bring in our chief international correspondent, christiane amanpour, the anchor of amanpour that airs on cnn international, also our own fareed zakaria, host of fareed zakaria gps which airs on cnn as well. christiane, you and i know chuck hagel, fareed, you know chuck hagel. he is not a guy who speaks provocatively without specific warning, without specific reason. when i heard what he was saying, i sensed he's pretty c

that there has been a collision between iran and north korea but it does not mean has not happened. >> does it mean iran would be greatly disadvantaged of north korea were not helping them? >> iran would be greatly advantaged if north korea help to them. >> is that help on going? ini cannot give it to you that form. >> perhaps in another. what can we do to stop the proliferation? the international community is going to bring continued pressure. we have to tighten our ability to see what is being proliferated and where it is going. we have to ensure that we have the ability to interdicted before it is proliferated. know you're focused on this problem. some of the most chilling testimony this year before our committee came from the admiral who told us, remember the truly dark edge of the spectrum is weapons of mass destruction and the proliferation of these weapons. he said the ability to move 10 tons of cocaine in the mini-sub , begin also made a nuclear device. already the means of thatferating nuclear arms do beyond what we have seen so my area of responsibility are the highways for a lot of activities. some unrealized the size of the pacific ocea

is iran a bigger nuclear threat right now than north korea? >> well, actually, north korea's along, farther advanced in its nuclear program so i would say north korea remains the more significant threat in the short intermediate term. long range, if iran were to get an actual nuclear weapon, it potentially changes the dynamic inside the middle east. so both are very troubling over the long run, but north korea actually has a more advanced capability right now than iran. >> former state department spokesman p.j. crowley. great to have you with me. i appreciate it. >>> the beyonce and jay-z cuban vaca crisis continues to escalate. wait until you hear this. republican senator marco rubio now wants the obama administration to explain why the couple were allowed to travel in havana for their five-year anniversary. rubio says the trip was used for propaganda purposes by the castro regime and may have been licensed by the treasury department. neither the white house nor the treasury department are answering questions about the trip or whether it's being investigated. >>> the republi

that there has been a collision between iran and north korea but it does not mean has not happened. >> does it mean iran would be greatly disadvantaged of north korea were not helping them? >> iran would be greatly advantaged if north korea helps them. >> is that help on going? >> i cannot give it to you in that form. >> perhaps in another. what can we do to stop the proliferation? >> the international community is going to bring continued pressure. we have to tighten our ability to see what is being proliferated and where it is going. we have to ensure that we have the ability to interdict it before it is proliferated. >> i know you're focused on this problem. some of the most chilling testimony this year before our committee came from the admiral who told us, remember the truly dark edge of the spectrum is weapons of mass destruction and the proliferation of these weapons. he said the ability to move 10 tons of cocaine in the mini-sub, begin also made a nuclear device. this is already the means of proliferating nuclear arms that do beyond what we have seen so far. >> my area of responsibility are the highways for a lot of activities. some unreali

ddc iran believes it is in a different lace the north korea -- didn't you say iran believes it is in a different place than north korea or --? >> north korea has already tested and detonated nuclear devices. iran is in pursuit of the nuclear weapons capability. they see themselves at a different point than the north koreans. but clearly they have ambitions in the middle east region that go back millennia and they are trying to build upon their past. they are looking at what is going on but put themselves in a different lace than the north koreans. >> what do you make of them putting in more sophisticated centrifuges in their public announcement? what are they trying to tell the international community when they do that? >> it just demonstrates they have not been dissuaded from continuing on this path to more sophisticated centrifuges. it is an indication of their determination but also the seriousness of the situation. >> what would be your assessment of the time between weaponization and being able to -- detonation and weaponization of a nuclear device? any sense of that? i know the president said a year. i'm curious

iran, syria and north korea. and now because of the republicans and some conservative democrats, us too. iran, syria, north koreated states. conspiracy theories can be fun. they make the world seem exciting and like there is a secret special meaning to things that only you know about if you're smart enough to understand how things really work. conspi

iran had the connections to the global economy. we do not have the same sort of lovers with north korea. >> the woman in the back. >> despite the recent resurgence the u.s. could never accept north korea as a nuclear eventual shift in policy accepting north korea d.c. andacto -- eventual shift -- do you see an eventual shift in policy excepting north korea as a defacto nuclear state? >> the central take away from me. there are some who argue it is time to acknowledge the obvious, that north korea has nuclear weapons and is not going to trade them and that we should not necessarily to acknowledge them but basically live with this for a long time and hope we can bound the problem. of thisral take away crisis for me is that we now know very clearly what north korean intentions are when they ballisticfledged missile capability and a full- fledged nuclear weapons program, meaning deliverable nuclear weapons. the north koreans have made it clear what they plan to do with these weapons. they to not yet have the capability to hit colorado springs. clearly,have said very our intention is to strike. for anyone making the case that somehow we should acknowledge or deal with or live with a nuclea