so meet them, a lot, ultra 0 med rent really of, we spoke to him in melba from the northern africa institute. he explained how many liberation movements in africa had struggles and the transition to political parties. what we witnessed is the slow, this a formal declaration movement as government and political power since the transformation of the society. it has several reasons. one of those is the lack of delivery. it's a rob incestuous reproduction of control and power. it's a re, they divide between the former liberal race as liberators, as they see themselves. and the people risk the gratian that if you are not with us, you are against us. which creates a device if at most, for yeah, instead of being open minded and co op team and it was nuts, monday law, who in an interview some 24 d as a goes to head. it's the wrong, the question, the question should be, if you're not against us, you always us. but the former legal ration movements as governments have reproduced a military mindset. so they also feel is tied to, to not only to the execution of power but also to the river, which is that

we can speak to heading melba, who is a senior research associate at the northern africa institute, joins is from up solar in suite, in sweden, heading great to have you with this important story. this of course, there is this theme of national liberation movements winning powers and that, but then not leaving out to hope and expectation, not just in south africa is we've just been hearing with elsewhere. why is this the case? do you think what can be written this the, gets the slow death of somebody of a ration movement as government in political power since the transformation of the society? it tests 7 rows reasons. one of those you already listed in your summary that was or is the lack of delivery. so it's a rob incestuous reproduction of control and power. it's a re, they divide between the former liberal races, liberates us, as they see themselves. and the people, wrist, a question that if you are not with us, you are against us. which creates a device if at most, for yeah, instead of being open minded and co op team and it was nuts, monday law, who in an interview some 24 years ago,