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nover go to the true believer rand paul-type candidate.ican party shift to libertarianism, is it rand paul to pick up the pieces? >> the poll numbers you showed, interesting, despite christie losing ground versus hillary clinton, he still performs better than other potential 2016 candidates. against hillary clinton. he performed better than rand paul. so the question is, can he survive a primary to get to a general? and there is a concern among moderates that with this whole scandal that we will end up with a rand paul as the republican candidate. he won't be able to beat hillary clinton. >> can't win the general election. that's the question. besides chris christie, who else is out there who can play that sort of moderate role? who could be the electable george w. bush in 2000? >> jeb bush. his brother. >> marco rubio. his problem, he clearly gets skittish, right? on immigration, came out hard. instead of continuing to force the issue backed away. they pounced on him, conservatives. that hurts him. look at politics now, terry mcauliffe is

the states where they could do a flip and in 2010, it reached its apa, this hy and bringing every novered million dollars around the country and flipping, i think, 20 or so states. it's amazing. if you look at a swing state and presidential politics like colorado or carolina, right? they are bright red and bright blue at the state level and state government. >> so you said, you know, the gop has succeeded with this but there are 13 states are also solely controlled by democrats. have they used the same method to get the money in the states? >> it's all of those same methods. it's raising money from a national group and finding ways to go around campaign finance limits in states. normally, you can't just pump a whole lot of money into a lot of states. they have strict rules. what they do is go in and set up shadow parties and these political nonprofits that basically take on a lot of the work of paying for advertising and they can't be tracked and you can't see where the money comes from unless you look at where it's going to. >> these are effectively like super pacts? >> yes. >> they ha