these model bills in part who are funded by the nra or who fear that the nra will attack them with thesends. and, quite frankly, this is, exactly as you say, chris, hysterical is a situation in search of a problem because you already have a right of self defense. and they have the political muscle to do it. >> let me make one more point just on that. basically, lobbying is giving the subsidy to the lawmakers that you support. that is the time, effort, brain power, technical expertise of crafting a bill. it's incredibly important at the state level. so when someone comes in and says we've got these experts on gun laws and they've written it up, don't you worry about it, that is very powerful. that's a really powerful thing. one of the sub texts is we would all be better off with larger staffs of state reps and state senators. that sounds like a really technical place to give up. but i think that's part of what's going on here. >> it's driven by how you want to proceed. lisa grace, long time alec tracker, thanks so much. we really appreciate it. [ male announcer ] we got a real mom and the

well, how about help from the nra? stand your ground was a top priority of the nra back in 2005. in fact, governor jeb bush signed the bill with the national rifle association's lobbyist, marianne hammer at his si "people shouldn't have to depend on law enforcement for protection in every situation." calling criticism of the measure "silly." bush, the governor then, supported that sentiment. >> it's common sense to allow people to defend themselves. and to have to, when you're in a position where you're being threatened, when there's a life-threatening situation, to have to retreat and put yourself in a very precarious position, you know, it defies common sense. >> former democratic state senator walter campbell, who supported and co-sponsored the bill in florida now says the measure was sold to lawmakers as a way to expand self-defense rights. campbell now admits the law is being abused. along those lines, state representative dennis baxley, another co-sponsor of the measure, also known as a castle doctrine law, says he stands by it, but believes it is not being applied properly

, this is the nra's vision for america.do you mean by that? >> that's precisely what it is. the nra's utopia is a place where anybody can get a gun and carry it virtually anywhere. this is -- and what we are seeing in florida, tragedies like this, are the manifestation of what happens in the nra's utopia. it is two different visions of america, the vision that the people have that want to protect themselves, that want to live in safety. as parents we want to raise our children in safety and then there's the vision of the gun lobby representing an industry that wants to make carrying guns more permissible and envisions a society where people like zimmerman are walking around with guns. >> what in florida took place that led to the passing of the stand your ground law? or is this a template of stuff coming from gun enthusiasts that think they have to protect themselves or give them license to maybe even go and do something like this? >> it is lobbying, it is good, old-fashioned lobbying. it is lobbying of an industry that to

-- this is the nra's vision for america. what did you mean by that? >> that's exactly what it means. it's utopia is place where anybody can get a gun and carry it virtually anywhere. this is and what we're seeing in florida, tragedies like there are the manifestation of what happens in the nra's utopia. it's two different vision offense america. there's the vision that the people have that want to protect themselves and live in safety and there's the vision of the gun lobby representing an industry that wants to make carrying guns more permissible and envisions a society where people like zimmerman are walking around with guns. >> what in florida took place that led to the passing of the stand your ground law or is this just some stuff coming from gun enthuse yiss that think they have to protect themselves or give them license to do something like this? >> it's lobbying. it's out shouted the will and even more importantly undermine the state of the of the american people. >> so we're not a series of news events that brought

the nra even co-chaired alec's criminal justice task force.hat task force not only passed and approved as a model, the law from florida which makes it easier to shoot unarmed people but also that task force approved and ratified as a model bill, the voter id suppression bills, and the bill out of arizona, fb 1070. >> so these bills and this connection with the nra, and alec support -- and a promulgation of those kinds of bills throughout the country, right? >> that's right. and the koch industries also have and a long-standing effort to try to discredit the notion of climate change. and alec of course has a panoply of things that opposes climate change. last august at their annual convention, alec had a discussion on how more co 2 is good for you. >> so if people want to see who is on alec's board, where should they go? is there a website they can turn to? >> yes, we have a website called alecexposed.org. the alec politicians, corporationings, and task force. i have an article that details the koch industries history and their ideological effo

the nra. stay with us. >>> welcome back to "the ed show." the videotape the night trayvon martin was killed is raising questions. emotions are running high all across florida. i'm joined by sanford city manager. thank you for joining us. i know you're unable to discuss the details of the ongoing investigation. we'd like to ask you a few things about the timeline of events and some other things, if we may. when did you first -- when were you first aware of the surveillance tape in the police house there when mr. zimmerman showed up with the police after the shooting? >> we were aware of it. as you said, that is part of the investigation we're not going to comment. we've been directed by the special prosecutor not to comment on the investigation. i appreciate your understanding that. >> certainly. you were aware of the tape, correct, early on? >> i am aware of it, yes. >> so you had seen the tape before yesterday? >> i had not seen the tape before yesterday. i was aware of it, though. >> you were aware of the tape but you hadn't seen it before

just days after trayvon martin was killed, the nra, where were they? they were on capitol hill working to nationalize that law, stand your ground. the national reciprocity act would force states like new york with strong gun laws to follow florida's example, just what we want here in manhattan. jeb bush talks about common sense. how's this for common sense, mr. former governor? when stand your from ground legislation reached minnesota governor dayton's desk this month, he vetoed the damn thing and it was the right thing to do. jeb bush paved the way for this senseless tragedy and remained silent. what a political tragedy. >>> coming up, being billed as one of the most important races in the country. will this iraq democrat help the democrats take the house in november? tammy duckworth will join me. not financially. so we switched to the bargain detergent and i found myself using three times more than they say to and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back to tide. they're cuter in clean clothes. that's my tide. what's yours? >>>

there has been a lot of talk about the nra and their lobbying efforts.stances took place that forced the legislature and governor jeb bush at the time to sign this law? were there a bunch of killings that people had to be armed or was this really the work of alec and the national rifle association lobbying just because they wanted people to have firearms? >> the nra is a victim of their success in that they have won all the major battles and look for these fringe issues now. i asked for this during the legislative session when it was passed, every single person in support of it, i said, give me a single person in florida, name one, who has been unfairly charged, unfairly convicted or acquitted because they used defense and they didn't have the protection of the stand your ground bill. there was not a single instance in florida of a single person suffering in any way. this was a solution in search of a problem and the predictable and unfortunately unintended consequences is what we're seeing right now, a ma who potentially will have a defense for the horr

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>> no the nra is one of the most powerful organizations in the country.y have been trying to institute these stand your ground laws and they have continued to try to institute them even as this case has proceeded in other states. and to basically create a vigilante society. and that's sad. >> they have tried to use president obama to scare their members to drum up membership to perhaps get even more of these laws passed et cetera. i think they have wanted to raise money off of the scare tactic of saying that atf goes into mexico and thereafter they are going to take your guns away and be able to raise money off of that. is that sort of the strategy you understand to be? >> yeah the nra has reported a specific strategy that barack obama wants to take your guns away. they have exaggerated this gun-running case to claim that barack obama is trying to create chaos to institute gun laws. because frankly barack obama and the administration hasn't done much on gun issues so they need to scare their members to into donating. >> ari, keep up the great work at "med

did the nra have a role in the nra contributed the maximum amount that they could at the time, $12,000 2004 and 2008, alabama and idaho were next. the bill was sponsored by a pair of democrats. a month letter the first democratic governor signed the stand your ground law, janet napolitano. a bill drafted at the request of the nra and passed with only nine no-votes in the house and nate combined. we had 14 states with signed versions of the doctrine stand your ground law. as of today, some 32 state have a version of it. some are specific as to where you can use deadly force, there are new signs of opposition starting to pop up probably shouldn't be too surprising. minnesota's democratic governor just vetoed a version of it in minnesota. john lynch tried to do the same but the state legislature there overroad his veto. meanwhile, the controversy over the trayvon martin shooting isn't stopping the nra from expanding it even further into more states. alaska, where it's already in place, a bill is being looked at. an e-mail was sent out to help supporters push it through. all of this raises

it all came from alec and the nra, is that right? >> that is absolutely true.e this law was passed in wisconsin, district attorneys, sheriff, newspaper editorial boards and responsible legislatures said this law is a bad idea. in fact, on the floor of the legislature there were legislatures who begged republicans to reconsider and consider amendments that would at least require some reasonable sense of threat. they were shot down at every turn. the fact of the matter is it's a very, very similar situation as regards to how the law was developed and how it was passed. you see that connection with the nra and the american legislative exchange council. >> that's the thing that's troubles to me. this isn't coming from the people. this is coming from the corporations. this is coming from a group that claims it has a lock on the market when it comes to knowing what the gun laws should be in this country. what we're seeing now is dead people around this country when people have the cover of the law to end up being in situations like this. is there going to be outrage

. >> well, look, i have fought the nra in florida since 1985.e call for an investigation of the nra in florida, not the police chief of sanford or prosecutors, they're not the problem, they're victims of this law just like trayvon martin was. >> george zimmerman, the alleged shooter in this case, he remains not only free, but he remains armed with that gun he used in the death of trayvon martin. licensed or not, he is not a cop, his license should be revoked. what is it going to take for that to happen in this case in your opinion? >> we have to overall those rules on concealed carry. they're a disaster. and, you know, if we don't weed out all these things in this legislation that's causing all these problems, as i said, if we can't stop the nra from pushing up gun rights and public safety down, we're going to continue to have these problems. >> arthur, the lawmaker who was the one that drafted this legislation says there's nothing in it that allows pursuing and confronting people as zimmerman did to trayvon martin. when you look at all the stat

what really struck me more than anything in the past few days was the nra which has come out not only very strongly for senator santorum, but some of the strongest message and that i have ever seen the nra do anti- romney. if he is the candidate, the message is not going to be something that they want to live with. tavis: democrats are being asked to go consider voting against gov. romney in the michigan primary. i can see that both ways. >> i absolutely agree with you. i am somebody that believes that democrats should nominate democrats and republicans should nominate republicans. i think we would change the presidential nominating system. you see what happens when the national media focuses on issues that matters to your state. everyone knows i have had this position for a long time. i do not think that iowa and new hampshire are reflective of the diversity of this country. i think we should be talking about the midwest, the west, the south, other areas so we can not get the issues that make a difference. what is going to happen to morrow will be interesting. >> michigan awards prop

that's what the nra claims. and people are so worried a top firearm manufacturer is actually suspending new firearm orders because they say they cannot keep up. and get this. the company has sold more than one million guns the first quarter of this year, that is nearly the same number of firearms sold in all of last year. joining me now, larry pratt the executive director of gun owners of america, and not just larry, stand by, hold on a second, john halinko. i'm sorry. your name with us not in the prompter, we haven't met before i apologize to you for that. >> no problem. megyn: let me start with you, larry what explains this. >> it is building on what has already been there. we saw before the last election of the president that fears of what he might do, of his known antigun views were driving people to the gun stores and the gun shows and sales have actually remained high since then, and the spike that you're correctly pointing to now is on top of that steady, high drumbeat of sales. i saw it personally with m

george zimmerman is not being prosecuted because he's hiding behind the nra, what we call shoot firstons later law. now trayvon martin is killed because of a nra-backed conceal carry law that allows people to carry loaded weapons around in public. what is being done at the federal level is to allow george zimmerman to be valid in every other state in this country. he still has his permit. they're trying to let him legally carry around his loaded gun around in every state of this country. >> rudies pointed that the democratic party has not been strong in hey we should not go in this direction. >> they snead to stand up to the industry who is giving millions of dollars to the lobby and standing up for people getting shot and killed every year. on an average american day in this country, 32 americans are murdered with a gun. that's what happened at virginia tech. that happens every single day and nothing is done about it. >> if everybody had guns it would be fantastic, if you had a gun on that day during the virginia tech shooting everything would have turned out rosy. how do you respond

this was one of these things they do that the nra did nationally trying to get states to pass it. there was no one in florida who claimed that they had been wrongfully charged or i quitted or convicted and needed this protection. this was done solely because the nra asked the legislature to do it and they have a lot of sway with the legislature. it will make it harder for mr. zimmerman to be charged if he is charged. >> that's powerful statement you made. it seems to me not pointing this at you, but the media, i think has a responsibility to go to these governors and these lawmakers who follow alec and follow the national rifle association like puppets on a string and ask them why did you sign it if there's no clamoring in the public for this. we're passing laws because some industry wants it to be passed. in the meantime they are contributing to the thaugt process of someone that that a firearm in the middle of a confrontation and in this case, i think you could make the case that zimmer man thought he was doing what the law was going to allow him to do, to chase this kid down. >

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this was done solely because the nra asked the legislature to do it and they have a lot of sway withure. it's going to make it harder for mr. zimmerman to be charged, if he is charged and convicted. >> that's a powerful statement that you just made. you reiterated what you told us the other night. i mean, it seems to me -- not pointing this at you, but the media. i think has a responsibility to go to these governors and these lawmakers who follow alec and the national rifle association like puppets on a string and ask them, why did you sign it? if there is no clamoring in the public for this. i think we have a real responsible to follow up on this. we are passing laws because some industry wants it to be passed? this in the meantime, they are contributing to the thought process of someone who has a firearm in the middle of a confrontation and also in this case i think you could make the case that zimmerman thought that he was doing what the law was going to allow him to do, to chase this kid down. >> this was really -- listen, about 20 of us -- i was in the state house at the time an

first, i'm against the nra.ut it is bigger than that, casey. there is this whole -- it is a whole murky right wing group that is involved with the nra. this isn't just florida. it is a lot of places they're getting these laws enacted. >> caller: i live in florida but not close to sanford. i'm in ft. lauderdale. i'm 41 years old. the hip-hop we listen to is run dmc. we were rockin' shell top adidas. >> mid adidas. no sleep till brooklyn. the youth of today -- this is the other part. parents need to be responsible too. the kids of today, how they're leaving the house. this goes for females too. girls who are 10 and 12 years old wearing daisy dukes the parents need to be responsible for their children when they leave the house. >> stephanie: you're not using the blame the hoodie argument, are you? >> caller: no. what i'm trying to explain is there's enough blame to go around with this. first, trayvon wasn't an innocent kid. they made it -- >> stephanie: excuse me? >> caller: they made him out as an innocent kid. he

the nra should be shameful for what they are trying to do.ave seen justifiable homicide shoot up dramatically in florida. here's what i also want to know. where are law and order people prosecutors across the country do not like these laws because they say it makes it even more harder for them to prosecute cases where someone guns someone else down. >> you say you agree the law is being misused but you are complaining about the nra wanting to pass it in all 50 states. >> absolutely. first and foremost, we should not be sitting here saying, hey, if you think somebody is going to hurt you, then you should shoot them? how do you know what somebody else is thinking? what? you're walking around paranoid and suspicious and i can tell you right now as an african-american man, if i'm wearing a sweatsuit, do i want someone saying, i don't know what that guy might do to him so let me pull my weapon out. it makes no sense. we have a vigilante society and that's last thing we need. more folks thinking somebody is going to hurt them so therefore whip my g