nra board members went over to and the nra president went and were hosted and treated to lavish meals by this group of russian officials. high-ranking with russian officials during their visits. a lot of things are going on here because a lot of the russian gun companies are trying to get into the u.s. market. they were under u.s. sanctions. continued intoip the campaign. fbi016, according to the which was tracking her very closely, she was very active in trying to set up meetings and back channel communications through the nra between u.s. officials and russian officials. be theictment appears to first right by the fbi, given the charging documents state torshen is a co-conspirator. he is a close ally of vladimir putin as so many of these inures and russian officials the upper echelons of their government are. they have popped up in different places in this massive investigation of russian influence, every time a new piece comes out, you have to take a step back and say they are doing this as w well? they were hacking democratic officials, they were blitzing messages thatith were eit

nra. so sophisticated, and well thought out. it has gone on for years and goes for this guy torshin and today we learned that mariia butina has been funded. this is someone separate. this is beyond torshin. this came out this afternoon. they said a russian oligarch, and one of putin's closest advisers was funding her. that puts this 29-year-old in the middle of putin's inner circle. >> malcolm, this is interesting >> malcolm, this is interesting in that it is not part of the mueller investigation. it is separate. and this business about being a foreign agent. she is a representative working in the foreign government without disclosing that information. >> that is a light indictment that they start out with before working into the esponnage charges. david is absolutely right. this is a plan that goes to the highest level of the kremlins and they didn't just go after the nra. they went torshin >>> they went after the extreme christian conservatives, now who have every year a conference in moscow on quote-unquote the protection of

her ties to the nra are being given closer scrutiny with some asking why was the nra singled out to influencecan party? joining me is the president of the brennan center for justice and the author of the second amendment, michael waldman. michael, thank you for being with us. i know it sounds like a simple question but it's worth exploring. if you want to get close to republican leadership, why would one target the nra? >> well, this should show at the very least the russians have been paying attention to what goes on in american politics. the nra has been around for a long time but it's moved from are being involved with both parties to tied to the republican part yey and as part conservative political movements. it's a very vital place to get voters who are active and passionate republican voters and it is something that is bringing this issue not only to donald trump and his circle but closer to the heart of american politics. >> let's talk about donald trump, for instance, i'll ask the same question. if you want to get close to donald trump why would you target the nra. >> when he was fir

so far, the nra has been quiet.oining me is a survivor of the pulse nightclub shooting and founder of moms demand action. thank you for being here. i want to let you know, 30 minutes ago, "the washington post" reported that miss butina received financial support from constantine, a russian billionaire with an energy and technology company. she told senate intelligence committee in april that he provided funding for her gun rights group she represented. a spokesman confirmed he was launching between 2012 and 2014. miss butina, who basically founded the gun rights movement in russia, which is very small, was very much active in american politics. shannon, you tweeted that despite the fact that the nra has been awfully vocal, including referring to your organizations volunteers, i hate to read this on sunday but as dry humping, word that starts with "w." they are not shy. why do you suppose they have been quiet about this unfolding scandal involving it? >> that's a good one. they specialize in attacks. they spent the l

the nra according to butina is the largest response of of elections and other events. now, that's her project proposal for this influence operation which the fbi said she was running illegally in the united states to influence the republican party on behalf of the russian government. that's her proposal she wrote in 2015. why would someone believe in 2015 that the republican party is likely to obtain control over the government in 2016? why did she think that? why does she think that enough to be so sure she was going to predicate this on that expected outcome? also, why in the spring of 2015 did she think she had the "right to negotiate?" . why would they believe they had the right to negotiation and what the positions of the 2016 head of the party would be? i don't know, but we are likely to find out. the fbi lays out a detail in this complaint how she worked to set up contacts and secret communications between unnamed u.s. persons and the government. we don't know who u.s. person two is in the complaint, but a year after her project proposal in march 2016, she repor

if we already know that she was involved with the nra, torshin was involved in giving money to the nras going to become a potentially hot button issue. >> julia, what will you be watching out for in this? >> a couple of things. the first thing, the biggest thing is alexander torshin. weighs a deputy governor of the russian central break which has more power than the federal reserve here. he, most notably, was named by spanish authorities as having -- laundering russian money in spain and, two, as having been the top guy in a notorious organized crime ring, a russian mafia figure. we have been hearing a lot about money going into organizations like the nra and ways the russian government could have funneled money for the election meddling effort. that will be something i am looking at, too. >> and just to add on to what julia said, the spanish prosecutor in that case that involved torshin said that don jr. may have been caught on wire taps that they had of torshin and he should be very nervous, too. >> we will see. guys, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> and the president's summit w

the nra.w does what we're learning here tie into the broader investigation into russian election meddling? harry litman a former u.s. attorney and was a deputy assistant attorney general during the clinton administration. and matt miller is an msnbc news and nbc justice and security analyst. he is also a former chief spokesman for the justice department. harry, how does it tie in? this was not a mueller indictment, and there isn't anything that says she was involved in the election meddling in this indictment. >> well, there actually is. katy, this is a wild, wild story with the potential to send shockwaves not into trump campaign officials, but throughout the republican party. there is allegations of having worked for years with republican operatives here to try to set up these back channel communications, as you say. some of them are not in the campaign, but others are. she holds a party to celebrate the inauguration in november 2016 with many trump campaign officials. there she boasts that

no comment by that nra, for more than a week now? in january, mcclatchy reported that the fbi was investigating whether the russian government funneled money through the nra to help trump win the election. that might have seemed nuts at the time when mcclach ewe published this report. but that was before we got the indictment how else russia was using the nra to try to influence the election. that was before we got information how else russia was trying to influence the election before butina's defense lawyer said in court she was contacted by the fec in march whether certain political donations had been made to campaigns before the "washington post" said butina testified to the intelligence senate committee one of her sources of funding in the united states in 2016 was a $5,000 a month consulting deal she had with the outdoor channel television network to provide advice on a planned program on hunting in russia. how did she get hooked up with the outdoor channel? quote, the outdoor channel's chief executive, jim libator, accompanied

we'll focus sometimes on the russia/trump angle or the nra.estigation is going to be known as what? it looks to me like a russian infiltration campaign on all levels of the conservative movement on this country. is that what happened? >> that's exactly what seems to be happening. this was every much as part of the russian influence campaign as the cyber attacks, the phony facebook ads, the twitter bots, all of that. i've got to say just one thing -- >> i know you have a hobby horse. i'll let you go. >> dereliction of duty on congress' part. why every major political scandal in the last half century, watergate, iran contra, you name it. public hearings by the congress, key witnesses testify under oath before the tv cameras. none of that has happened here. all behind closed doors, including butina by the way. we should be seeing these witnesses. they should be hauled up. grassley and feinstein could call michael cohen up tomorrow, subpoena him, have him testify in public. >> don't let lawyers spin. let's see it for ourselves. it's a good point t

the nra is saspecial interest group. he didn't say he spoke to the department of justice or the state department. he's not speaking to any other gun control groups, but the president took to twitter to say i have reached out to the nra. so those of you who have chanlted over and over, drain the swamp, walk us through -- >> why you would go to the industry group. >> why would you contact the largest lobbying group ever, the nra, on what to do about the ghost gun. >> as of last week, one of the organization's videos called 3-d guns freedom and innovation. tom costello has more on the guns and why the president should be checking with his own state department rather than the nra. >> this morning, growing pushback against a new type of firearm that some people can actually build in their own home. eight attorneys general now asking a judge to block a texas company from publishing the downloadable instructions for 3-d printers to manufacture guns. from handguns to semiautomatics made of plastic and without a serial number, th

they hit on the idea of going through the nra, skps she does first, in fact, and foremost attract and get next to a 56-year-old kind of social climbing member of political conservative sishlgs. he used to run pat buchanan's campaign. they launch specifically for collusion. the whole idea here and her american knows it, is to try to set up back channel communications from the russian government to the u.s. they hit on the idea that many in the nra have this unusual influence with certain members in the republican party, and that was her point of entree, and, you know, there's a sort of titillating aspect. when push comes to shove, it is a bit of a dark political tale. it was kind of easy, as jeff says to really consort with a whole bunch of people, and there's going to be a lot of embarrassed older men, i think, whose facts are going to be coming to light in the next couple of months. >> you were reading -- she played them. right? she worked them. >> she played them. >> she worked them is what happened. harry, listen, she's wrapped up with a milwaukee county sheriff david clark, and in

i already spoke to the nra the doesn't seem to make much sense.ns for these guns are already on the internet mp t. tom, i watch with interest as reported on the today show. now the president is tweeting about it. there's a big push on the hill from democrats now. walk us through these moving pieces. >> reporter: they can accurately manufacture ghost guns. they are fully functioning weapons. not registered or traceable. because they are made of plastic, they could slip through security check points at airport, prisons, even capitol hill. >> welcome to the age of printed magazine. >> reporter: 30-year-old cody wilson is the face of gun movement. >> gun control is undead. >> reporter: the obama a administration took wilson to court. cody wilson insisted he has a first amendment right to pub lu lish and they were online any way. >> you have the right to make them.any way. >> you have the right to make them.d they were online any way. >> you have the right to make them. >> this changes the safety of americans forever if this is allowed to happen. >> re

using the nra as the russian point of leverage. and it is clear that the political party in question is the republican party. and the gun rights organization is definitely the nra. that's how you have to read it. the fbi retains what they call her project proposal for this spying operation. if you insert the proper announces, it is pretty surprising what she says as of march 2015 she was trying to do. this is her project proposal. the first line reads, project description. diplomacy. it goes on to state that a major political party, the republican party, would likely obtain control over the u.s. government after the 2016 elections. the project proposal says the republican party is traditionally associated with negative and aggressive foreign policy, particularly with regard to russia. however, now with the right to negotiate, seems best to build constructive relations. the project proposal notes the central place and influence in the republican party played by the nra. the nra according to her is the largest sponsor of elections to

i'm not a member of the nra but i support the nra on a lot of things. you go on twitter and you're like maria butina helped funnel millions of dollars for the trump campaign through the nra three russian billionaire. they are painting a picture that is wild. she seemed to get around. she knew a lot of people in washington. how did she get to know so many people? >> which he founded the group, she invited people to moscow to support the group. the nra sent a small delegation and met her and then there were some exchanges back and forth where she went to nra meetings and hosted a couple meetings in russia. she met some senior people in the nra and when she came to the u.s. to go to school, she met her boyfriend who was active in republican politics. she went around the to different events. she had her picture taken a lot of places which is not really consistent with being a spy. all the pictures you see on tv are from her facebook page which is open. we do one of the accusations would be that she's an unregistered foreign agent which is not a spy but if y

perhaps that's why we're not hearing a lot of chitchat from the nra itself. i would have expected them to come out more strongly in defense of their organization and their many leaders who have appeared in photographs accepting a membership in butina's russian gun organization. we've not seen that. obviously, there's a lot of information left here to come out. it could be very dangerous for politicians. >> and gun rights, by the way, is not a topic of huge interest in russia. now, joyce, to tonight ace new york times head line, a clean kill on that part. reporting unmatched by other news organizations as of the time of this brauflt. from the start trump has muddied a clear message. putin interfered. the president knew h knew before he was president. if true, joyce, what does that mean? >> long-standing d.o.j. policy holds that the justice department should not indict a sitting. . i still don't think we'll see mueller's team depart from that policy. this reporting if it holds up is clear proof that the president has engaged in, at a minimum, a could haveup of

an nra association that went to moscow to meet with a group.a's group paid $6,000 of clark's travel expenses. clark is a huge trump supporter, how significant is this? >> yeah, there's certainly money going back and forth. the deputy of justice was careful to do a very small and easily provable charge. she's just in court because chef acting as an agent and didn't register with the attorney general. there's all kinds of suggestions that especially through for shon, her handler, he's right now under sanctions and under investigation for funneling money to the nra. underneath the simple charge may lie all kind of dirty money being funneled to the nra and some sort of back and forth to fill tate the political influence. >> butina was in a romantic relationship with paul erickson. do you think he was just a dupe? >> oh, i think he was. this was very typical, this falls in line with what i was saying earlier about the fail fast and fail cheap. the russian way of doing this is similar to the business emerging strategy. you throw a bunch of stuff agai

no comment by that nra, for more than a week now? in january, mcclatchy reported whether the russian money help trump but that was before we got information how else russia was trying to influence the election before butina's defense lawyer said in court she was contacted by the fec in march whether certain political donations had been made to campaigns before the "washington post" said butina testified to the intelligence senate committee one of her sources of funding in 2016 was a $5,000 a month consulting deal she had with the outdoor channel television network to provide advice on a planned program on hunting in russia. how did she get hooked up with the outdoor channel? quote, the outdoor channel's chief executive, jim liberator accompanied to moscow in 2015 and there he is with accused russian agent maria butina. december 2015 exactly the same time that trump national security advisor, mike flynn, was also in moscow sitting next to vladamir putin at a banquet for russian tv. same time period, right before the republican preside

september 2016 seems a little bit suspicious to me. >> i'm nra. >> i am also nra. [ speaking russian >> we are good ol' boys. american comrades who love freedom and flag. >> da, and love the second amendment, very nice, high five. >> now it's time to protect great nation, america, from hillary clinton woman. >> woman who must take away american guns. no woman! >> it is gun that makes u.s. strong. >> and big, like fat bear. join nra today too fight for red, white, blue. >> are you man or mouse? >> man. [ cheers and applause ] >> jimmy: right? i mean, it's suspicious. tonight on the show we have a good show. music from jim james, bo burnham is here, and we'll be right back with jonah hill. crabfest is back at red lobster! discover our largest variety of crab and crab dishes all year! like new crabfest combo. your one chance to have new jumbo snow crab with tender dungeness crab. or try crab lover's dream. sweet, juicy king crab and jumbo snow crab cozied up with crab linguini alfredo. even our shrimp is crab-topped! gone in a snap. so hurry in and get your butter-dunk'e crabfest will b

mariia butina was a big part of that, trying to convince the nra to go along with the russian agenda.t fishy about this. she was heading a group in russia, gun rights group in russia where there isn't widespread gun ownership. comes to washington, d.c., becomes a lifetime member of nra, and ingratiates herself to that organization. why do you think it took off, what was appealing about the nra and folks in the republican party that thought it resonated. >> she came with money, she was spreading big checks to -- russian political money to candidates to the nra, buying her way into these conferences. i think they're eager to hear from people who are supportive of their message because broadly speaking, their message is not resonating with the american people. it is widely unpopular, people would prefer to see more gun control. they're looking for allies wherever they can. >> we talked on this show in the last many months about russian efforts to sew discord online, on the internet, with trolls. certainly that came to light in fine focus last week in the indictment handed up by bob muell

this is a bad case not just from the nra but anyone whose sieved money from the nra. >> more about theakfast here, it attracted close to 20,000 people. close to 50 russians attended. why is there such a warm relationship between christians and russia? why was butina so strongly received? >> the whole christian right has strongly embraced putin as this model of a strong leader that they admire. particularly for his lg btq crew said, his values. the fellowship, organizers, particularly admire him because they're theology. their religious view is built around their understanding of jesus, the strong man. they believe christian gets it wrong when speaking to every day people. they're called to administer to elites like trump and putin who can bring peace together. that's their vision. that's what they created the prayer breakfast for. >> the court papers -- >> can i just -- >> yeah, go ahead julia. >> i think this is an important point that we sometimes don't talk enough about, which is, there's one thing about trump and putin and questions about whether there's, you know, conspiracy or co

at an nra convention in 2016. had proposed a meeting between then candidate donald trump and vladimir putin at the event but was denied. earlier in 2015 at an event she even asked trump what he thought about sanctions against russia. >> if you would be elected as a president what would be your foreign politics especially in the relationships with my country and do you want to continue the politics of sanction that is are damaging both economy, or you have any other ideas? >> i know putin. and i'll tell you what. we get along. i believe i would get along very nicely with putin. okay? i mean where we have the strength. i don't think you'd need the sanctions. i think we would get along very, very well. >> let me make a quick point to you. right there. trump says i know putin. months after that, he walked that back. when you watch subsequent statements. i don't really know him. but right there. when asked. >> confidently. >> i know putin. >> but did he know putin? or was he lying? those are the only two possibilities.

nra she's reaching the populous.hrough the national prayer breakfast she's reaching the social conservatives. this is national prayer breakfast is run by an organization called the fellowship or the family. oldest arguably most influential christian organization in washington. specializes in providing access to elites. they're not interested in the masses. what's interesting is we see not just butina -- this is not a case of her infiltrating the prayer breakfast, but in fact them reaching out to her. some of their initial contact happens in moscow where they also run a prayer breakfast for government elites and where they met with butina and agreed to start working together on influential delegation that they could use to bring to the prayer breakfast and to forge relationships out of that. we see that in affidavits. she says thank you for the very important private meetings that followed and i look forward to further meetings where we'll share further information. >> would you say that the russians over the years, n

we can expect more to come out of this nra aspect of the investigation.ey found money, we don't know. late last month, the fbi and prosecutors likely did obtain the nonprofit tax returns of the nra, which would show all their so-called dark money donors, donations that don't have to be made public. we don't know whether the money side is going to prove out. we do know the nra is now part of a criminal charge. >> sir, greg, you speak so calmly, i think some folks may miss the bombshell in your answer here. you're saying there's been all these mueller charges of russians abroad, how will you get him? is putin going to extradite them? but using similar leads to charge a russian inside the united states? >> that's correct. we have to see how this proceeds. she's facing up to five years in prison. there have been lots of conspiracy theories tossed around about what vladamir putin is doing to silence witnesses in this investigation. >> let me ask you before i let you go, i was dying to get you on this so we will do it on live tv, what portion of this relates to

for groups from the nra. so that the fight in the georgia legislature. and legislators eventually is at delta from tax breaks. so, would you do this again? one of the lessons you learned from this? >> the issue around the nra came out as a result of what happened at parkland high school with the shootings. shortly after that, a lot of the commentary and rhetoric that was being expressed at the time coming from the nra itself. this is not something i personally even knew that our brand was on the nra website because they offered a very small discount program for the members to travel to their annual convention. we could not be seen as endorsing or implying any kind of support for the actions in the words the nra was using and we had to remove our brand from the debate and take us off the website and we were going to be ending the discount program going forward, which in georgia, particularly in the state legislature, a high number created backlash on us because they were also about ready to pass a jet fuel tax

political groups like the nra.t comes just days after the justice department also indicted a dozen russian intelligence officers for election related hacking. we were just talking about that. matt miller, former chief spokesman for the justice department, joins me now. he's also an msnbc justice and security analyst. matt, the significance of this indictment for this woman, this young woman, who was living here and trying to gain influence within an american political organization, including the nra. >> i think the best way to think of this is as one part of a multifaceted russian campaign to influence the united states policy. and we've seen, you know, through the results of the mueller investigation, their attempts to influence u.s. policy by choosing who the next president would be. this is their attempt to influence u.s. policy by infiltrating the nra and using it to cut vat relationships with u.s. political officials. one of those political officials seemed to have been donald trump. she publicly asked him a q

again, we tried to look into allegations that the russians may have been funneling money through the nra, but the gop found that too hot to handle. these are serious matters, and i think there is no ignoring the fact that for whatever reason this president acts like he is compromised. there is simply no other way to explain why he would side with this kremlin, former kgb officer, rather than his own intelligence agencies, why he would continually attack nato, and again. some of those allegations and that much-disparaged dossier untes which would be whicbe eshat unfortunatnt >> tom bossert, final word for you. how should the president follow up on the summit this week? >> well, the place i disagree with the congressman is that the president acts. no, he speaks in ways that people don't feel comfortable, but the way he acts is to impose the painful punishments on president putin from the last two presidents. that's a pain that president putin feels. i think what president trump ought to continue doing is acting tough. he is advancing interests in the u.s., china and around the world. we do

at an nra event. donald trump himself at a campaign event in las vegas.ty impressive. i don't know anybody who could have pulled off that trifecta that easily. how sophisticated was she? >> she seems like she's pretty sophisticated. you know, i have to say that that january 2017 national prayer breakfast, there were a lot of other russian politicians there and there were others trying to come whose either invitations or trips got scuttled for various reasons. it was kind of the dawn of this weird symbiosis between russia and the u.s. what is interesting about butina is not so much her -- what she was doing here. it's that she was constantly relaying it back to alexander tortian back in russia. he is a really important figure. he headed the central bank. he was a russian senator. but more importantly he was named by spanish -- the spanish law enforcement as being very kind of heading up an organized criminal group that was laundering russian money in spain where we know putin has some property. so this guy is really tied with some nasty, dirty illegal stuf

. >> reporter: the nra came to moscow.sted a gun conference and charmed nra board member david keen and his associate political operative paul erickson. by april 2014, visa in hand, butina was on her way to indianapolis for the nra's 2014 annual meeting. there, she snapped a pick with nra chief executive wayne la pierre and began blazing a path within u.s. political circles in what authorities allege was a covert operation. her relationship with erickson turned romantic. whether he was duped by his young lover who used him for political connections or lured into a spy operation to influence politics ahead of the 2016 election is unclear. erickson is nearly twice butina's age. >> if you want poushwer, if you want influence, you see a candidate you like, show up and work for them. >> reporter: after growing up in south dakota and graduating from yale, he sought to make a name for himself in gop politics. he crossed pathings with now disgraced lobbyist jack abramhoff. erickson also launched investment schemes and faced lawsui

already spoke to nra. doesn't seem to make much sense." know you see the limits of legislation but does this send a shiver down your spine that this will be happening today unless somehow congress can stop it or there's an injunction? >> well, i don't know. i think it's unrealistic to say -- everybody points to congress all the time. it's unrealistic to say we can just stop it. that's unrealistic. however that doesn't negate the fact that we should come together to look at where there should be reasonable regulations on this technology. . we're in an era of computing power that spreads very quickly. there's no question about that there are things that we can do and it's unrealistic to think there are things that can stop that because of the way the internet works. i'm not saying we shouldn't do it, we should try to reduce the -- just like there are laws that prohibit other illegal things the, it makes it tougher for people to get but does it stop it 100%? >> of course. i just don't want to be in a stadium or plane and have somebody walk th

and made lots of buddies there, including david keen, the nra president at the time.nd so torsion, the squash buckling russian carved this path. and then they started having these exchanges with this brand new upstart gun group in russia with butina as the sort of comely founder of this. she became -- she followed in torsion's path and became friends with all the same people. they got john bolton to cut a video for them. the tentacles of this thing went really far and wide. it was sort soft so slow and so convincing they invited these nra folks over to russia, lots of vodka, we all love guns was the idea. and then all of a sudden everyone's deeply compromised. and this one guy american, the u.s. person got especially compromised as we can tell from these latest indictments. >> it's an extraordinary set of allegations, as always, they remain just allegations because they haven't been proven in court yet. but they do have some evidence and you had reporting to begin it all off. it's extraordinary, tim dickinson, thank you so much. >>> up ahead, how are republicans defen

at an nra convention. here's butina at the political conference freedom fest in 2015. >> in russia, i'm the founder and now i'm the board member of the right to bear arms. >> reporter: at the conference, she can be can be heard asking then-candidate donald trump a question about russia. >> do you want to continue the politics of sanctions? >> i know putin, and i'll tell you what. we get along with putin. >> reporter: butina is accused of even trying to get putin an invite to the annual national prayer breakfast and of working to create a back channel of communication with american politicians. according to sources, her operations allegedly under the direction of alexander torshin, one of putin's closest allies. >> maria butina. >> reporter: the fbi claims butina's time as a graduate student at american university was nothing but a cover to infiltrate and manipulate. >> so, pierre with us live from washington. we're told butina is due back in court tomorrow. has she responded to the charges? >> reporter: ye

political system and the nra. prosecutors accuse the 29-year-old of offering sex in exchange for a position inside an undisclosed special interest organization. one of her alleged russian contacts joked in one message about her high profile in the united states saying you've upstaged anna chapman. she poses with toy pistols while you are being published with the real ones, a reference to another redheaded russian arrested for spying in 2010. investigators say butina was involved in a personal relationship with an unidentified american who was instrumental in aiding her covert influence operation. and now there's growing questions about this moment at a 2015 conference when she asked then candidate trump about russia. >> do you want to continue the politics of sanctions? >> i believe i would get along very nicely with putin, okay. and i mean where we have the strength. i don't think you'd need the sanctions. >> reporter: during her time in the u.s. the fbi claims butina was reaching out to politicians and those in

he is stronger in an attitude about guns even then the nra. was this a fundraiser for something?statistic, that supposedly the reverend moon spent over $1 billion for the first 30 years of the "washington times" of his money. do these two guys have his money? tom: no. --ean, they are not particularly justin is a good businessman, so he has money. he is the head of a foundation , a foundation in memory of their younger brother philip who committed suicide. it supplies a lot of the money to the century church. could sanctuary church just -- church. brian: they bought a lot of land? tom: a lot of land, the church. contributions from members. , it isot tithing voluntary support from members. the supposition is that justin is an important financial pillar of the church. he is very active in the church. but there has been a divorce from the family, businesswise. justin originally opened his gun business as part of the unification church business empire, and he negotiated a separation from that so that he is totally removed and is now a self standing business. brian: let me give you a q

nra ever contributed so there are serious questions that need to be answered here. >> i know you're not a political analyst, if that's proven, if russian money was in an nra pool, you got all these people running for reelection in the midterms whose opponents can say my accepted money. >> there is risk for people accepting money or otherwise intertwined. perhaps that's not why we're hearing a lot. i would have expected them to come out much more strongly and all of the many leaders that appeared accepting an honorary membership in the russian gun organization but we've not seen that obviously there is a lot of information left here to come out and it could be very dangerous for politicians. >> gun rights by the way is not a topic of huge interest in russia. to tonight's "new york times" headline, a clean kill unmatched as of the time of this broadcast here is the headline from the start trump has muddied a clear message, putin interfered. the president knew before he was president if true, joyce, what does this mean? >> long standing doj policy holds that the justice department shou

then the nra came to moscow.a gun conference and charmed nra board member and his associate political operative paul erickson. by april 2014 she was on her way to indianapolis for the nra's 2014 annual meeting. there she snapped a pic with executive director and began blazing a path in what authorities alleged was a covert russian operation. her relationship with erickson quickly turned romantic. whether he was duped by his young lover or wittingly lured into a spy operation to influence politics ahead of the 2016 election is unclear. erickson is nearly twice butina's age. >> you see a candidate you like show up and work for them. drop everything. >> reporter: after growing up in south dakota and graduating from yale he sought to make a name for himself in g.o.p. politics. he worked as a spokesman for john wayne bobt, the virginia man whose wife cut off his penis in the 1990s. he is currently under investigation for fraud by the u.s. attorney's office in south dakota. >> my story is simple. my father is a hunter.

an then they said, well, man, let's use religious organizations and let's use the nra and we can makeontacts and try to move the needle a little bit. and i think donald trump wasn't even on their radar screen at that point. obviously he comes in and is a sort of surprise candidate and suddenly he has pro-russia views so you can imagine them being like, wow, this is great. >> and talk about that. harry litman said on this program that this is collusion. it may not be the kind bob mueller is looking for, but this is the intersection of foreign assistance and assisting with political efforts, political plays in our democracy. >> right. that's why i've always said that collusion is like what do i do with that word, right? what does it mean, right? we've known that foreign governments are trying to influence our politics. it's really unusual that they -- the federal government lays bare kind of how this goes down. and i do think, as paul said, i think what you're going to see because this was a hurried case because they had to make the arrest over the weekend, this is only a criminal compl

say it was the nra.ashington and new york for people to try to come together and talk about russia's interests, that she got herself invited to the national prayer breakfast. she went to nra conferences. she even got her russian benefactor to come with her to one of the prayer breakfasts last year. she did appear briefly in federal court today. her lawyer says she's not an agent of the russian government, she's agreed to cooperate with investigators, that she testified for eight hours before the senate intelligence committee. nonetheless, he says they decided to search her apartment in may -- rather in april, i think, and what we're told is the reason they have gone ahead and filed the charges now is that she was preparing to move out of town and so they decided to act on the case now. >> how does this connect to alexander torshin and who is he? >> he is according to the court documents her benefactor. he was a russian legislator, key official in the russian government, a senior official in the russian s

so this catches the attention of nra going back and p forthosting people from the nra.you kno conservative ties. is anu to k become an influencer to meet people at nra meetings in this country and also a delegation from the nra did go to russia and was hosted by her group. so what a great way to, you know, meet e game? py kuit.no this i knoe there.. notd tfr daiohey a it? >> there's tryin wgh a whi chtrying to influence them,ht.t. there's a lotig of focus on, you know, russia i hyre ofhettnfngen oth uerci perg oake h manery could we turnol her? would she wke bith and ine russia back? >> this is we' ins living our cb and a whoyou.le, k >> yeah. >> there's a flip side of lefe, right. >>ho that's what we love to celebrate athe spy museum the t secret history of hit reach our 16th anniversary today. >> happy anniversary. >> thank you very much. come a u sees down at farragut y today. mean that's what we get into, you know, what makes spies do what theyo? and why areheyg itn do? and she's just great story to tell. she'snt cesaptutsred sts. ate ve fspacy that we've been so fo

just charged yesterday by the justice department for acting as a foreign agent and infiltrating the nra and trying to create back channels with the trump campaign and trying to get vladimir putin to the 2017 national prayer breakfast. so, since you interacted with her and now you watch all of this unfold, what do you make of everything that happened yesterday? >> well, i'm kicking myself because she reached out to me several times after moving to the u.s. wanting to, you know, hang out and get coffee and i just thought, i don't know, i don't have time for this. could have been a good story. instead i just have this story about her taking me shooting at a former kgb shooting range back in moscow in 2012. >> not for nothing. >> i know. >> but just very quickly one point on that did you sense she was trying to make in roads into the u.s.? and get some sort of policy changed? >> well, this was back in 2012. she was still based in russia and she came to my attention because basically the russian opposition tends to be kind of more libertarian because there is so much of the government in eve

the trump administration's sickening nra give away undermines the foundations of public safety. metal detectors and other measures will useless against the ghost guns. >>> a big announcement this morning from alan alda. the 82-year-old actor revealed he has parkinson's disease. but it's not holding him down. >> the thing i want folks to know and this is not to shortchange the people suffering with severe symptoms, symptoms can get very bad, but in the very beginning to be immobilized by fear and think the worse thing has happened to you, it hasn't. there's things you can do. >> the actor was diagnosed about three and a half years ago. he decide to go public after he noticed his thumb twitch in a recent interview. he wants people to know he's still living his life fully. >> we wish him well. >>> let's check the weather. how's it looking? >> it's a little bit hazy out there. this is the dublin camera. can't quite make out. there's smoke kwee sky -- smokey smokey skies this afternoon. it's different in ocean beach. i'll show you in a second. weather head life in prisons, hot and sm

pennsylvania, according to the nra, something like 900,000 nra members are within a 300 mile radius ofg, pennsylvania, the capital of the state. when i was up there for the story, i came upon another gun manufacturer in pennsylvania that actually manufactures a line of rifles for kids. they have two lines, the chipmunk rifle and the cricket rifle. i went on to the website, it is called keystone sporting goods or something. i went on the website, and there is a letter from a dad to the owners of the company saying -- your guns are terrific, lightweight, accurate. i bought one for my five-year-old and seven-year-old, and i think this is terrific. and as a non-gun owner, i am thinking, what is more discomforting about that? the fact there is a company making a line of rifles for five-year-olds, or that their parents are buying them? but this is part of the backdrop of what is going on up there with sanctuary church. the message of guns, i asked justin and sean over and over -- these are responsible people. the people i met in the congregation were decent folk. no wide-eyed crazies. why ar