nsa went into immediate crisis management mode. we had failed to protect the united states of america. >> pelley: you felt that was a failure of the national security agency? >> drake: the entire national security establishment. it was a failure, a fundamental systemic breakdown. >> pelley: part of the failure at the national security agency was in its old technology. these pictures from "60 minutes" in 2001 represent one of the only times cameras have ever been allowed inside the nsa. the nsa eavesdrops on the communications of the world, but in the 1990s, it was becoming ineffective, overwhelmed by the explosion of digital data. >> drake: vast volumes of data streaming across all kinds of different networks-- wired, wireless, phones, computers, you name it. >> pelley: and what does that look like to nsa, coming into their building in maryland? >> drake: choking on it. just incredible amounts. how do you keep...? even just storing it was becoming a challenge. >> pelley: most of what the agency collected went unanalyzed, including

before his current position at the nsa, mr. olsen served in the department of justice for 18 years including 12 years as a federal prosecutor. in a letter of support for mr. olsen's nomination, former attorney general michael mukasey wrote of mr. olsen, and i quote, he was not only an excellent lawyer and manager, but also an exemplary person in dealing with his colleagues. matt has an abundance, every personal and professional quality and skill you could hope to find any nominee to head the nctc. his nomination has my unqualified support. and finally, there is a letter from mike mcconnell, in which he also offers his strongest possible support. as a 44 year veteran serving the nation as a member of the intelligence community, i have many opportunities to work with professionals of the department of justice. this was particularly true when serving as the director of national security and as the director of the national intelligence. during those years of service i never met or served with a more accomplished or dedicated profes

we will always have that bull's-eye on our shirt. >> reporter: dickie george is in charge of the nsa cyber defenders. he says the agency is looking to hire nearly 3,000 cyber experts in the next two years. and the computer whizes at places like that las vegas hacker convention are made to order. >> i solve problems extremely quickly. and i enjoy learning. it's my passion in life. and i think with that skill set that would be valuable to anyone. >> we need them. there are too few people on our side right now. >> reporter: it's the cyber version of it takes a thief to catch a thief. they want to strengthen computer defenses, probe for weaknesses, and detect attacks in their earliest stages. every day brings word that cyber thieves have stolen secrets from companies and the government. and a new report from the cyber security firm mcafee offers a dramatic example. it detected sophisticated, sustained attacks on 72 public and private targets in the past five years all from a single source widely thought to be china. >> the government's concern is state-sponsored espionage and unprecedent

. >> reporter: the national security agency, nsa, for decades the eavesdropper in chief is scramblingploy more troops on the latest security battlefield. life version of cyberattacks depicted on the tv series "24" and the movie "die-hard 4." hackers target the stock market or the air grid, air traffic controls or phone networks. >> we are everyone's target. we will always have that bulls-eye on our shirt. >> reporter: dickey george is the man in charge, director for information assurance.cc1: he says the agency is looking to hire nearly 3,000 cyberexperts in the next two years, and the computer whizzes at places like that las vegas hacker convention are made to order. >> i solve problems extremely quickly, and i enjoy learning. it's my passion in life. i think with that skill set, that would be valuable to anyone. >> we need them. there are too few people on our side right now. >> reporter: it's the cyberversion of it takes a thief to catch a thief. nsa wants experts who can strengthen computer defenses, probe for weaknesses, and detect attacks in their earliest stages. very day bring

, see if i can break into nsa. now, whether the government funds, encourages that through the universities, um, and backs it and is just the recipient of whatever goods come from that, or the students don't necessarily have to work for the government. so there are different levels of witting and unwitting proxies. but the key to that is leveraging through diplomacy hopefully before any military engagement with the states to get an understanding of what is acceptable behavior emanating from a state whether it's from your student body or your private companies or individuals. what's acceptable in the state's responsibility, to make sure no other state or territory is harmed from something emanating from your country? >> guest: while we're doing the diplomacy, we need to remember that in that part of warfare or part of economic competition the weapons in the next competition will be people and we're way behind on the people side. our colleges aren't teaching people how to defend computers or how to develop new techniq

get into a telephone switch in maryland and i was able to intercept an ongoing conversation from the nsa's facility in fort mead. i just popped on the conversation, i heard a man and woman talking. and i go ooh this is cool, coy really do t and disconnected and never did it again. just the to climb mount everest. >> stephen: is there any chance that you're just telling me that so you don't do harder jail time? >> possibly (laughter) >> stephen: thank you so much. (cheers and applause) the book is we'll be right back. vo: this week at old navy. all famous jeans on sale! mom gets jeans for fifteen dollars! kids get jeans for ten. and will dad finally get a new pair... of jeans? it's our lowest price! all famous jeans fifteen dollars, kids ten. sale ends wednesday! only at old navy! >> that's it for the report, everybody. don't forget to watch woi des moines. [squeaking and thudding] [indistinct chatter] - i'm open. i'm open. - come on, guys. [squeaking and thudding continues] clang! smack! clang! smack! [muffled squeaking and shouting] [bell rings] [whistle blows] [rapid tapping] [whistle bl

if i were that student and that was the goal of the class, i would see if i could break into the nsa. whether the government fund encourages that and it is just the recipient, or the students don't necessarily have to work for the government, there are different levels of winning and unliving proxy. the key to that is leveraging through diplomacy hopefully before any military engagement. whether it is from the student body or the private companies or individuals, what is a success -- what is acceptable to make sure that no other territory or state is harmed her? >> we need to remember part of economic competition, the weapons are the next group of people. colleges are not teaching people how to defend computers or how to develop new techniques. we are so far off of the path, we have the cyber challenge that is a big, national competition. we need to ratchet that of a at a very fast rate. >> you can spit -- split the different categories. the u.s. doesn't do economic espionage. the u.s. does not permit or engage in financial crime. we do that against them, so when we talk about things

get into a telephone switch in maryland and i was able to intercept an ongoing conversation from the nsa's in fort mead. i just popped on the conversation, i heard a man and woman talking. and i go ooh this is cool, coy really do t and disconnected and never did it again. just the to climb mount everest. >> stephen: is there any chance that you're just telling me that so you don't do harder jail time? >> possibly (laughter) >> stephen: thank you so much. (cheers and applause) the book is we'll be right back. >> that's it for the report, everybody. don't forget to watch woi des moines.

get into a telephone switch in maryland and i was able to intercept an ongoing conversation from the nsa'sity in fort mead. i just popped on the conversation, i heard a man and woman talking. and i go ooh this is cool, coy really do t and disconnected and never did it again. just the to climb mount everest. >> stephen: is there any chance that you're just telling me that so you don't do harder jail time? >> possibly (laughter) >> stephen: thank you so much. (cheers and applause) the book is we'll be right back. >> that's it for the report, everybody. don't forget to watch woi des moines. - ♪ i'm going down to south park ♪ ♪ gonna have myself a time ♪ - ♪ friendly faces everywhere ♪ ♪ humble folks without temptation ♪ - ♪ going down to south park ♪ . ♪ gonna leave my woes behind ♪ - ♪ ample parking day or night ♪ ♪ people spouting "howdy neighbor" ♪ - ♪ headed on up to south park ♪ ♪ gonna see if i can't unwind ♪ - ♪ [mumbling] - ♪ come on down to south park ♪ ♪ and meet some friends of mine ♪

in your july 19 vote on the task force report, you stated the nsa finds itself at the brokerage time to move away from small group packings, including the commission itself attempting to labor in isolation. this is very disturbing to me. the commission itself attempting to labor in isolation. you were an independent entity. what were you talking about, isolated from home? >> that term was meant to reinforce the importance of having stakeholder meetings and public meetings. the chairman should have the benefit -- >> but you cannot believe it is up to stakeholders to decide which a reader what we should approve. you are an independent commissioner. >> the process should be informed by the public -- >> the chairman has laid out a plan. it proposes a process to receive broad input over the next 90 days from nrc staff and external stakeholders and to have votes by october 2011. do you agree with that? >> as i indicated in response to your earlier question -- >> i am not asking you an earlier question. i'm asking you this question. chairman jaczko has recommended to move forward in 90 days

i'm not going to get into any details of how the nsa does business but since you're the chief legal officer at one of the country's largest intelligence agencies it's safe to say that you are an expert on surveillance law. estimate that like to ask several areas of the surveillance law and how you and your colleagues interpret the law so we can get some of this information on the public record. >> the first question is would you agree the key portions of the patriot act has been the subject of significant secret interpretations and these interpretations are secret today? >> thank you. i did appreciate the opportunity to talk to you in your office and the classified setting to talk about some of these matters come and i appreciate your ongoing interest and concern. the direct answer to your question is there are provisions of the patriot act that are the subject of matters before the intelligence surveillance court. that meets in a classified setting and some of the pleadings and opinions that relate to the patriot act that have been part of proceedings before the intelligence court are clas

the enhanced interrogations, the extraordinary renditions, the domestic surveillance programs of the nsa. so the fbi has ended up sort of being very bound by its constitutional responsibilities to protect and serve. >> host: can he be reappointed, mr. mueller? >> guest: it would take a special act of congress to extend his term, something i don't think we're going to see. >> host: thank you for your >> my wife and i live in tulsa where there's plenty of water and woods. it is a very green place but like the rest of this nation it has been stricken. temperatures in triple digits for many days and that is the way it has been most of the summer because we are in the last leg of this national book tour and we have been all over the country. deep into the eastern ud

general alexander is head of cyber command in nsa, and they do a very good job as can be done on protecting the dot.mil networks. but we don't have that same robust arrangement in protecting the dot.gov network. >> host: where are most of these attacks coming fromming? >> a variety of sources. it's not only attacks, attacks being the worst that could happen. most of us are familiar with cyber intrusions, and people think of things like going in and hacking into our e-mail or spamming the e-mail. but intrusions can also be much more serious; espionage, criminal activity. certainly in the banking system where there are millions if not billions of dollars that are siphoned off every year. espionage, defense contractors being hacked and critical information being stolen, some of which may be at the classified level or will eventually become classified. those are real problems. the area of attack, of course, that's what we -- that term is used, in my opinion -- [inaudible] but the potential exists that a nation state or a terrorist could, for example, hack into the electric grid in an attack whi

general alexander is the head of cybercommand and nsa and they do a very good job that can be done at protecting the .mil network on military networks. we don't have that same robust authority and coordination in protecting the.gov network and there is a lot of work to be down there. >> host: where most of these attacks coming from? >> guest: from a variety of sources and it is not only about attacks. i look at it in terms of looking at cyber intrusions, disruptions that are the worst that could happen. most of us are familiar with cyberintrusions and people think of things like going in and hacking into our e-mail or spamming the e-mail list but intrusions can also be much more serious. espionage, criminal activity, banking system where there are millions and billions of dollars they are siphoning off and stealing every year so it is a real problem in detecting our bank system. espionage, contractors being hacked and critical information being stolen, some of which may be at the classified level or if not classified now will eventually become classified. those are real problems. the

and i know for a fact the director of the reagan library brilliantly e-mails because his daughter had nsa she had to write about herbert hoover not doing anything about fixing the crisis and his daughter armed with the arm station permission from the hoover library and a director and myself got an a on the test to educate her teacher about what he did during the great depression by what has been interesting to me this you develop a thick skin and learn to question the narrative and think independently the greatest gifts i got from herbert hoover but the narrative has gotten worse in my lifetime. democrats always brought louvre as the whipping boy for economic tide-- hard times when no republicans do it mitt romney talks about barack obama hoover bell and rush limbaugh has even said the economy is so bad we will not reelect barack hoover obama. i cannot put that out there without a small defense. this is a man who the contemporaries called a great humanitarian and biographers said me estimate just shy of 1 billion lives were saved because of his efforts at famine relief. the pioneer of the

that doesn't mean there aren't occasions where that falls through between a cia and an fbi or an nsa with an nga, so forth, that whole alphabet soup, and by and large we've been doing that for many, many years. the collaboration, moving toward that center. again i think the past decade we've shown a jointness at collaborating a whole lot better. that is, simply two parts coming together and saying, what's the task at hand, what's the challenge we're facing, let's work together toward it. i will put in my pieces, you put in your pieces. i'm talking about a different model at integration. not on every single subject, not on every effort but where it makes sense. you bring the human capabilities integrated against that same target set in terms of what the defense humint effort is with the national clandestine service is one example. where cyber is concerned, you integrate the focus on that problem set, rather than having it separate and still collaborating. so i think i've given you a bit of a sense where i think we're going while still giving you an idea where i think we've come from o

nsa picked that up. do they need a court order to listen to that when the conversation has already taken place? by the time you get a court order, the conversation is over. in some cases, you need emergency authorization. with all of these things that have occurred, no abuse has been found. if you do not let the fbi do wiretaps, why do you let them have weapons? at some point you have to trust law enforcement. if they do wrong, prosecute. have oversight, which we have. both the extreme left and right have these conspiracy theories and the idea that the government is watching everything we do as if they have nothing better to do than listen to phone conversations for no reason. the reason we have not been attacked cents 9/11 is because the fbi and cia -- the reason we have not been attacked after 9/11 is because of the fbi and cia. every few months, the fbi has arrests of terrorists. that is the bottom line. that is why we have not had an attack. that is why we have been safe. host: ron kessler is our gue

but does the private sector want nsa mucking about in its business? maybe, maybe not. but those are things that are still being sorted through. now, here's the most interesting idea i heard in the aspen security forum is among the cyber specialist was this: it's a cultural idea. as we go forward, we have a whole generation of people coming along who don't care much about privacy. it's an interesting idea that i'm thinking of, you know, my kids and others who -- let's leave my kids out of it, this might be on television. [laughter] but we have -- >> other kids. >> -- a generation of young people who are throwing a lot of stuff out there on facebook and linkedin and everything else without the kind of concern about privacy that my generation grew up with and have sort of rubbed into it. so when we look ahead, it's not that we don't want to protect vital information, but the whole idea of, basically, americans like government when their security is threatened. they don't like government when their privacy is threatened or when their communications are threatened. so just

documents with the cia, atomic energy commission, department of defense, intelligence agency, and our own nsa. i can go on and on, a lot of late nights looking at documents, and then there's a point in the book where i make a shift in the way i wrote the book. everything in the beginning is written in a traditional journalist form where you annotate everything and be sure where your sources come from. at the end of the book, i lean into the reader and i say, okay, that's not why area 51 is still classified. area 51 has never been admitted to by any organization in the government, and that's a fact. they. any of the documents have the word area 51 blacked out or redacted and refer to it as the test facility or the site, but it's only ever located in print twice by me, and i believe those were obviously errors, so why keep this base secret? i lean into the reader and say, here's why i think the base is secret, and this came to me from a source, and in the last seven pages, i tell you what the source said to me, and i'm very clear to make clear that there is no documents to fact check this up ag

nsa picked that up. do they need a court order to listen to that when the conversation has already taken place? by the time you get a court order, the conversation is over. in some cases, you need emergency authorization. with all of these things that have occurred, no abuse has been found. if you do not let the fbi do wiretaps, why do you let them have weapons? at some point you have to trust law enforcement. if they do wrong, prosecute. have oversight, which we have. both the extreme left and right have these conspiracy theories and the idea that the government is watching everything we do as if they have nothing better to do than listen to phone conversations for no reason. the reason we have not been attacked cents 9/11 is because the fbi and cia -- the reason we have not been attacked after 9/11 is because of the fbi and cia. every few months, the fbi has arrests of terrorists. that is the bottom line. that is why we have not had an attack. that is why we have been safe. host: ron kessler is our gue

i mean, in a lot of ways as we were doing this reporting, i kept going back to the nsa wiretapping programe because you don't know if you were wiretapped, and we can't tell you if you were wiretapped because that would, you know, jeopardize national security. >> are these people being wiretapped? is that one of the things they're doing routinely? >> we don't have any information about any sort of wiretapping, you know, blanket wiretapping programs. but we know the nypd did push years ago to try to get fisa authority which was, you know, seen at the justice department as a real -- a real grab to try to have the ability to do wiretapping. you know, that was unsuccessful, but we didn't uncover any information about that. >> adrian fenty, as mayor of washington, d.c., another city that, of course, was attacked on september 11th, anything similar to this within the washington police department? >> you know, we have a much smaller police department. 50,000 here in new york, 4,000 down in d.c. but d.c. absolutely has the counterintelligence units, but there's also the federal government in d.c.,

incomplete because it has yet to record a comprehensive as that for the medicare prescription drug nsathat program had reported outlays of about $59 billion in fiscal year 2010. and as ms. snyder just indicated, hhs expects to record the prescription drug benefit in fiscal year 2011. it is important to recognize that the rda going in and improper payments reported by hhs in fiscal year 2010 is not an estimate of fraud in medicare. reported in improper payments include many types of overpayments, underpayments and payment not adequately documented. in addition, because the improper payments estimation process is not designed to detect or measure the amount of fraud in medicare, there maybe five that exists in the program that is not encompassed in the improper payment estimate. in 2010, cms created the center for program integrity to serve as a focal point for our national medicare program integrity issues. the cpi, as it is known as responsible for addressing program integrity issues and vulnerabilities that lead to improper payments and they collaborate with other cms component to dev

we have cia, nsa ect. who work hand in hand with us. we have contractors. there's people with language skills, obscure language skills we only need on a limited basis, contractors to deploy the critical information technology systems we spoke about earlier. >> host: give us examples of the important information technology systems because that sounds so washington. you know, people sort of get an example to wrap their brain around it. >> guest: we operate human sources. you spoke about with this dave williams, a critical source of information, and we needed a system in information technology system to keep track of all of our human sources who have skills in what areas, what agents work the areas, and have the approval or course of working that source. there's a system to help us manage the human source population out there and ensure that the agent wants to do something with a source, there's levels of approval, and that system takes it through to the agent, agent boss' boss -- >> host: an informant? you want them to take some other action, you have informa

agency to pursue something as opposed to, as john described, purely theoretically, the capability of nsa to simply gather all that information in the volume that he referred to. and by having that human penetration, that human individual that's sitting in the place next to the right server, the right switch and so forth, allows then the effort to be far more targeted as well. finally, that human source is one who will give -- and i promise to come back to this -- this decision advantage that gives something the machine does not generally give, which is the atmospherics. around a situation. so as a human source that's in a circle of influence or a circle of power that we're interested in, that individual is able to give the sense of the environment as well as just the facts. an enormous amount of effort has to then go into the vetting of that source, the weighing of that information properly weighed against the value of other information collected on that environment as well. but that becomes very, very important to the decision-maker. so by that decision advantage and then that confidenc

and instead he said, well, i want you to come up to nsa and talk to them, so that's how i got involved. >> host: also joining us today was siobhan gorman who coffers national security type issues for "the wall street journal". thank you all for being on "the communicators." >> guest: thank you. >> next on c-span2, remarks from the dalai lama on nonviolence in the 21st century. later, a discussion on the state of public education with sacramento mayor kevin johnson and former washington, d.c. school chancellor michelle rhee. and then a student conference on the legacy of ronald reagan and the workings of the federal government. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> earlier this year the dalai lama made his first visit to arkansas. he spoke to an audience at the university of arkansas on nonviolence in the 21st century. this is an hour and a half. >> we typically associate with widespread social change and political renovation. but i would suggest to you that these individuals from their cloistered positions have affected more positive change in our lives than many who have devoted their careers to public se

a significant step was taken in the creation of the sub-unified command under general alexander at nsa in giving him the dual half for looking at cyber security as a mission set under strategic command. the reason i believe that is significant is our ability to defend is directly proportionate to the ability to detect what the adversary is doing in cyberspace. by building then the partnership of the national security agency/cyber command with the department of homeland security for that, which is cyber inside the united states, i think we had a road map -- far from having arrived at our destination, but a road map -- for how to share the information of what our adversaries are doing to us and protecting inside the homeland through the dhs avenue. >> you can watch all of this event in our video library at c- span.org. we will break away from the last couple of minutes and take you live to george washington university for a look at u.s. attitudes toward the public education system. the polling data was released today. several panels covering topics like digital learning and perceptions o

instead, he said, i want you to go up to nsa and talk to them. that is how i got involved. >> also joining us today is siobhan borman, who covers security-type issues for the "wall street journal." thank you all for being on "the communicators." [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> sunday on news makers, represented emanuel cleaver. also, a look at federal spending. that is live sunday at 10:00 a.m. eastern here on c-span. >> but the judge, paul jennings, obscure people with little known stories. american university professor clarence lusane discusses many people who left their impact on the white house. >> i began to discover fascinating individuals whose and on the presidencyies his mark on the white house were virtually unknown, except for a few scattered short -- stories here and there. everyone knew that george washington and thomas jefferson had slaves, but most people probably did not know that eight out of the first 10 presidents had slaves. >> sunday night on

i've seen it in my role at nsa where i have been part of the senior leadership meetings about how nsa is going to react and respond to the budget constraints that we are likely to face, that we will face. the question will be, how do we make sure that we are focusing on the right priorities as a community and how do we achieve efficiencies where we can in order to meet the challenge that the current budget environment proposes? >> well, you see, from my point of view counterterrorism is extraordinarily important. is vital to the protection of the homeland. therefore having a strategy and an approach to it and a pattern and a practice that is well-established and carried out across the government is very very vital to have. candidly, i don't know whether we have that today, and so this question is meant with a view that i think it is really it ryan mission of yours. >> i appreciate that and again i will make for that reason, make that a prime mission of mind and will again commit to come back and talk to you and the committee and the staff and keep you apprised as often as necessary on