that's what the nsr program has done. if you operate a power plant jeff to have teams of engineers and lawyers to make sure some out you don't run afoul of this program. that's what all these nsr enforcement cases are about is simply letting plants -- will come efficiency improvement is another issue but for the most part these enforcement actions are about allowing plants to replace components that are part of way they work inside. >> mr. alteri, the trump administration is pursuing a number of reforms to the new source review program through updated regulations, guidance, memoranda, different things. in your testimony you note the commonwealth of kentucky has supported regulatory reforms to the program. as a state regulator who was implement the clean air -- you're an administrator who is implemented the clean air act. can you talk about why legislation is also necessary? >> well, in kentucky where prohibited from regulating my policy and guidance and so it's always critical for epa to go through the regulatory rulemaki

that would trigger nsr. it is that improvement that has been the subject of the litigation between these two. >> at the same time while you're improving the efficiency of the turbine, i'm going to assume you're cutting emissions at the same time. >> per megawatt hour, yes, ma'am. >> thank you. senator cardin. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i also appreciate all the panelists and this hearing. our constituents breathe the same air and our border so intertwined, sometimes i don't know if i'm in west virginia or maryland. it's -- we share a similar goal. i was intrigued by the senator's questioning on trying to reach some agreement here. i think the confusion, as i understand it, yes, you can make an individual power plant more efficient as far as its production and pollution, but if the total mix in the region is increasing because that plant is not doing what it should be doing, the overall impact is dirtier air. that's as i understand the dilemma we're in. perhaps we have something going on an individual plant