. >> a new chapter with the creation of ntf's, work in the virtual space, de-materialized worked to aextent. it's sething you hav explored a belief with augmented reality. can you tell us more about why you are interested in that? >> if i look at how i produce the balloon dog, it is through the use of cat scans, using all different types of technology to be able to have it be as kind of objective as possible, each twist and fold is an authentic as possible. so, i could almost take any part of that process and make a permit. in some ways my work presented in a digital way, but what i'm interested in as an artist is to communicate to people about life experience. if i felt that i could do it more directly, stronger in that media at this moment, i would. but i think especially for young artists, it's important to realize that if you want to create new work, fresh contemporary work, if you just work with the newest technology, that is -- that's not necessarily where you find something that is new. i think actually something truly ew comes from the things -- new comes from the things that

i think china, they have to get right now the ntfs they really have to -- the chinese vaccine's not working. >> that's your point. >> you look at a great proxy for china, not just electric batteries. it stopped rallying weeks ago. >> okay. so the concern here is that there's overall slowing in the economy as a result of the pred spread of the delta variant, which is potentially going to lead to increased case loads and not necessarily lockdowns, but people -- that's the thing, like what are we playing for? >> i don't want to get deep into the whole covid conversation again. there's so many other things to talk about what are we playing for? >> don't have the therapeutic. >> the antiviral. >> right, and because we don't have that, people are still worried that there's going to be hospitalizations and the numbers are going to go up >> right. >> and that the new jersey having no deaths the other day is a sign that that state is p pro-vax, but the anti-vax states of course which are very much in sync for who voted for president trump, are at risk. >> we're full speed ahead in the united states.