i'm soledad o'brien.come to “matter of fact." rural american towns are fighting for survival. 46 million people, or 14% of the u.s. population, live in rural areas. that number is shrinking. between 2010 and 2020, rural areas lost more than a quarter of a million people. these towns are struggling to attract and keep residents because of a lack of access to services, long commutes to jobs, and nonexistent or unreliable internet. in earle, arkansas, they're hoping new leadership can spark a revival. the town recently made history by electing the youngest black mayor in the united states. jaylen smith was sworn in last month. he's now in charge of a city that has experienced decades of segregation, violent resistance to racial progress, and a loss of jobs and tax base. it's a town of about 1800 people. the majority is black and around 30% percent live in poverty. our correspondent jessica gomez takes us to earle to see why this town thinks a teenager is the best person to lead. jessica: parent's night for t

o'brien, very good to have you. what do you think of the chinese posture on this?oked on air, sir, that i don't know what mandarin for chutzpah but first of all, condemn us for downing their spy balloon and then to say we should repair it and give it back and then to say they got to punish us for these actions because they're beyond the diplomatic norm, that is over the top and it is not getting any warmer, what do you think of it? >> the chinese humiliated us with this spy balloon crossing the breadth and width of the united states and no consequences. the only consequence they had is that secretary blinken didn't meet with wang yi in beijing but met with him in germany. they met with him in germany, no matter what they do to support the russians in ukraine, no matter what they do to the united states germany will continue to be their trading partner. so you know, today tiktok is in 100 million households. it is like 100 million chinese balloons all over the place. we're buying millions of chinese semiconductor chips from simc and others flow into the country even

i'm soledad o'brien.come to “matter of fact. there's an entire generation that doesn't know what life was like before social media. 46% of teenagers between the ages of 13 and 17 say they are constantly online. and about 54% of them say it would be hard to give up social media. several studies link the constant use of these platforms to depression, and even suicide. the cdc reports more teens are feeling persistently sad or hopeless. and suicide rates have increased among young people ages 15 to 24. now, more parents and educators are demanding action. the seattle public schools is suing social media companies, wanting them to pay for the damages resulting from the youth mental health crisis. our correspondent dan lieberman went to seattle for a closer look at this brewing legal battle. >> all these kids. somebody's daughter. somebody's son. somebody's brother, sister. all these lives, cut short. what we're dealing with is an epidemic of unparalleled proportions. dan: attorney matt bergman is the founder

thanks to peter o'brien for the business. great to see you, sir. and thanks to you for watching wherever you are around the world. more to come "live from paris." >> it is unheard of. young people in china challenging the president. the clampdown is immediate. >> the police suddenly and violently took people away. in our country, we cannot voice our opposition. >> strict lockdowns, daily tests. people are infuriated. >> so many people were sleeping on the streets. i heard people screaming. >> the only thing they told us was to hold on. >> some i thinking of leaving the country but without letting anyone know. youth under lockdown on france 24 and france24.com. >> join us on "down to earth" where we explore the incredibly complex relationship between humans and our planet. meet the people behind fascinating environmental health, and technological innovations. "down to earth" on france 24 and france24.com. ♪ 02/14/23 02/14/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> illegal intrusion airspace of other

robert o'brien, former national security adviser to president trump, more on this. robert, great to see you. so, antony blinken was with his chinese counterpart in munich earlier, which he warned ye china should not give weapons to russia and temper growing relations with moscow. then he turns around and he's sitting next to vladimir putin. are the american admonitions falling on deaf ears here? >> yeah, i don't think the chinese think very much of us, they think we are chump, they just flew a balloon over the width and breadth of the united states, stopped to the nuclear silos and then the air force bases and subpins and there was no consequence. i mean, we still have tiktok, we still have the chinese buying farmland next to military bases, we are still importing thousands and thousands of chinese chips, no consequence. ford motor company is about to do a work around on the inflation reduction act and send billions of dollars in taxpayer dollars to china for their batteries. i mean, the whole thing is absurd, so the chinese don't fear us, respect us, and you are se

judicial branch's standpoint, which is not on the political clock. >> and we have video of robert o'briense to meet with the grand jury. there he is walking in with, i think, his attorneys and others. a clear ongoing case that is accelerating in these coming days. >> i will be curious to see as we learn about how some of these testimonies play out over time whether there's a difference between how the national security official, someone like o'brien, choose to answer questions or not answer questions, as compared to how some of the political affiliations may. >> exactly. and we should always remember, i don't have to remind anyone, mike pence is also someone who may be running for president as well and has some political interest as well. >>> coming up next, 80 years old. president joe biden gets his annual physical, as questions swirl around his age and his health amid a looming re-election bid. ching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a new tool in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them

former national security a advise or robert o'brien is joining us now.nk you for joining us, i neff never thought i would be asking but balloons on national television, what do you make of this. how big of a deal is this chinese balloon incident? >> let me answer that question, i want to disagree with our confident reince priebus about something. -- o friend reince priebus. jason chaffetz and i were up in utah last night, there were 500 republicans every one of them wanted a picture, they came up about every third of them asked if jason and trey were going back to congress and clean things up, you may be 2% in iowa but in southern utah, i think you would be at 30%. trey: thank you, ambassador. >> a lot the questions, and your hair style as well. >> i'm sure. >> they want you back in washington. the balloon situation, national humiliation, we have chinese invaded our or space. a balloon at high altitude surveillance balloon. it was not a weather balloon, they spied on us, balloon topped and loitered over the missile silos and bomber bases, they collected

. ♪ soledad: i'm soledad o'brien. welcome to "matter of fact."merica needs electricians, plumbers, and carpenters. but right now, the trades are experiencing a huge labor shortage. according to a recent report, the u.s. has 650,000 openings for skilled labor. with more baby boomers retiring, the demand is expected to increase. now the effort is turning to recruitment and the focus is on gen-z or zoomers. this is the generation born between 1997 and 2012. they are on track to become the most college-educated generation. among 18 to 21-year-olds, 57% were enrolled in a two or four-year college. which means the trade industry is struggling to attract them. paul iversen is an educator at the university of iowa's labor center, which offers apprenticeship readiness courses. mr. iverson, nice to see you, thanks for talking with me. so what do you think is the, the biggest obstacle to getting people to go into trades as opposed to going off to a two year or a four year college? paul: for the past probably 40 years, school counselors have been trained tha

miss o'brien declared, that would be against the law. busy and would only benefits her opponents subsequently by supreme court decision. the eldest were excluded from boating. the former australian prime minister has unveiled that the foreign influence laws introduced by him back in 2018 were aimed at china, but did fail to achieve their goals. the most active state and political party seeking to influence public affairs in australia, china, but they don't seem to appear on the register. the law was aimed at orthor, terry, in states and not australia, security allies and geopolitical tensions had worse. and since it was introduced, the law which was introduced, as we said in 2018, was the biggest counter intelligence overall in decades. and it was aimed at combatting espionage activities and political interference. though without time it was not aimed directly at china symbol now admit that the key purpose of a foreign interest registered was to disclose the links with the chinese communist party and the ones they had formed in australia

i friend robert o'brien, former national security adviser. why aren't we taking action to deal with this? and why did we know about it? robert o'brien? larry, this is one of those embarrassing things i've ever seen. and an american diplomacy, we sped trillions and trillions of dollars on hardware and soldiers on airmen, on sailors. and we can't do anything about it. why was this allowed to go clear across the country for so many days? if you look at this, national security is one of these things that any country can do. it is a core function of government. we see that the by the administration knew about this sir balloon days ago. and it seems that there was an opportunity when it was coming over islands in alaska that we could have taken it down now, cause china denies that the balloon was carrying out term surveillance. and the u. s. navy is currently searching for the wreckage of the balloon. we can expect to hear more from that over the coming coming hours. but the are the, the claims of the threat posed by china or something of double st

last president o'brien bracey is in china. upon an invitation by his chinese counterpart, gigi and ping is therefore a 3 day visit, but 2 sides are also expected to sign co operation documents aimed and deepening the trade ties between the 2 states. o'brien bracey has got a lot on his plate. he has a lot to do on his itinerary, but all of those activities and plas boiled down to one single goal. and that is to expand economic and political ties between to iran and beijing. of course it goes beyond saying that china is it was major and number one, trait partner. it is a major buyer of iran's oil, and now the 2 sides are going to take another step forward to increase and expand their bi lateral ties. it seems that a 2 sides and rush up as well are forming a united front, a counter force to the west. and on top of them to the united states are unilateralism. they are planning to even ditch the daughter and use their own national currencies. either trade, so it's a very key step. now, abraham races was, it's a china and what we have to wait and see what will come out of that visit. but ther

could play a positive role in employing the situation between and value. iranian mccarthy. shelly o'brien has been a late, said the mayor of new delhi with a 150 votes. the candidate from the ruling, odd to me, party defeated. her opponent by 30 for her appointment, comes after 2 months of delays. unskilled dulls the elections were disrupted, due to disputes over whether to hold municipal elections simultaneously, as well as the inclusion of elders with respect to citizens. elected by the current governor was o'brien said, that would be against the law and would only benefits her opponents. subsequently, the supreme court decision, the elders were excluded from voting over to australia. now, where the former prime minister has unveiled that the foreign interference laws introduced by him back in 2018 were in fights aimed at china. but they failed to achieve their goals. the most active state and political party seeking to influence public affairs in australia is china. but they don't seem to appear on the register . the law was aimed at orthor tearing states and not australia, security al

ratcliffe, esper and o'brien.rence here is if -- if the defense intelligence or deference officials are correct and this did happen over the trump administration, they didn't know about it. >> they didn't. >> ainsley: that's the difference. joe biden knew about it on january 28th. the saturday before the saturday when it was actually shot down. we had plenty of advance warning. it was off the coast of alaska. why didn't they shoot it down when it left the property of alaska. left the land of alaska and went into the ocean or over the ocean? they failed to act. and then these journalists five days later in montana in billings, start taking pictures of this. they notify the intelligence community. they notify the press. they do stories on this. then america finds out about it. then they shot it down on saturday, on february 4th, days later. they canceled blinken's trip. people are wondering do they not want you to know because they wanted blinken to go over there and be friendly with china. did they not want you to

you got o'brien, and now you got tents. i think it's a reflection that this investigation is going faster than people anticipated. >> do you agree with that? >> i do agree with that. the investigation, we're clearly seeing signs that it's moving quickly. you'll remember that the first year at the biden presidency, we had a brand new attorney general in office. there were no signs of an ongoing investigation. we understand now the signs that we would have seen if the d og would aggressively pursue january 6. we would have seen people fighting back when they were subpoenaed or at least leaking that they received a grand jury subpoena. now, we see a fast press. i'm not sure, alicia, if we're close to the end. i do think it means that the d oj has a period of intense activity, where they are assessing the evidence and determining whether they had charges to write. >> i love that you're always managing our expectation because you know when we finally do have an answer to this, what that timeline looks like, will play you back al

paula, tell us what you know. >> reporter: well, victor, our colleague and i have learned o'brien isboth a special counsel jack smith's ongoing investigations and it's clear why he could potentially be valuable in both of these probes, of course, he was a top official in the trump administration, but considered resigning after the violence on january 6th though he did stay on in the administration and also the national security council should have been involved in the handling of classified documents at the end of former president trump's term. so he could also potentially have some information about how those documents ended up down at mar-a-lago but i will caveat the end of the trump administration was quite chaotic and didn't necessarily do everything by the book. now, previously o'brien has tried to assert privilege in response to some other requests from prosecutors so it's unclear exactly how much information they'll be able to get from him. now, we've also learned former acting homeland security secretary chad wolff was also interviewed by justice department lawyers. now, unli

former national security adviser robert o'brien will join us right after the break. at can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody. wondering what actually goes into your multi-vitamin? at new chapter its innovation organic ingredients and fermentation. fermentation? yes, formulated to help your body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness well done now adt professionally installs google nest products... cool. you're all set. so your home is safe and smart. we're gunna miss you. you can check in on your home. arm the system, we should go. manage your system from virtually anywhere. (thump) (scream) and get intelligent alerts, like when a package has arrived. - bye. have a good night. -boo! when the most trusted name in home security adds the intelligence of google, you have a home with no worries. brought to you by adt. ♪ every search you make ♪ ♪ every click you take ♪ ♪ i'll be watching you ♪ - [narrator] the internet doesn't have to be so creepy, the duckduckgo app, lets you sea

>> lau >>ra 100%. >> abs robert o'brien. it'sol>> lau great to see you ce back soon. we haven't seen you. great to hav e you on . tun and a special programing note, don't forget, tune into this up, show tomorrow night. okay?already stay up.. okay, it's only midnight eastern catch our reaction to be to biden. the state of the union address is going to be a lot of fun. and speaking of biden'sprim primetime address, a new poll reveals how weak he is . his standing is going down h the tubes. we're going to talk about it.use plus, one of the most brutal articles we have ever read about kamala, congressman byron donald, steve millerr rea, stephen is going to join me on set next. j.j. never missed a beat day sunday. in the apj is working on weekdays living like a freak de this work. de de de de de . hey, it's nice to see shakes like day to day. >> and i started by day to day with my carrie and cherry. they started off road vixen's in apparel company for women who ride. we wanted to create something that wasn't flowers and butterflies. their business got traction and they nee

former trump national security adviser robert o'brien is here to react. plus, as china runs russia to double down on biden, -- >> they want to inflict a strategic defeat on us and try to get to our nuclear facilities. in this regard, i'm forced to announce today that russia is suspending its participation in the strategic defensive arms treaty. i repeat, we are not withdrawing from the packet, no. we're sus-- pact, no. we're suspending our participation. >> the treaty he's talking about is the only remaining nuclear treaty russia has with the united states. it reduces and limits each country's nuclear arsenal, a necessary one when dealing with someone like putin. so it came as a huge shock that biden who spoke today about the ukraine war and vladimir putin didn't even mention it. maybe he didn't want to seem weaker than he's coming across because honestly what would he have said? at least blinken addressed it today. >> the announcement by russia it's suspending participation is deeply unfortunate and irresponsible. we'll be watching carefully to see what

figuring out o'brien is in love that remembers so a fur parliament was members of the duma sen isn't lovely as citizens of the russian federation towards murray. this speech comes at a very difficult time. a very crucial moment in our history here, but a few more we hang up soon, changes when you're in the world at large show we have historical nursery currently available that will determine the future of our country them of our nation. every one of us cause a huge responsibility to bear, but i guess i should be a year ago not is that we exist, defended our bizarre parsons in the russian. and we made sure our country say was a couple, if we have decided as a certain will to remove the dangers coming from lee. and now to see your resume in the ukraine way they have decided us, did that take this class in 2014. we have decided to start with special military operation. we're going to solve all our house, which i placed an order in 2014 the donald boss variable. but i will have started, sir, fighting for its right to speak their own language to defend their home with what they have overc

joining me now is one of those men refuting this talking point robert o'brien former national securitydvisor to president trump. robert good to see you tonight. is there any chance that this happened and you all weren't told? >> no, i think that's highly unlikely, laura. i mean, we'll have to see what comes out. the good news is, as aggressive as the ccp is and, the communist chinese party we're down to three mike's we have gallagher rodgers and mccauley the chair man of the house armed services committee. they're going to get to the bottom of this but we were never made aware of this and the idea this could have happened without us knowing is not very plausible. we'll have to see what comes out but certainly it's an odd claim. >> laura: robert, this just broke moments ago. cnn reporting that in april 2022 air force intel report titled people's republic of china high altitude of china blown circumstanceled the glop at about 65,000 feet and drifted past hawaii and across florida before continuing its journey. now, does this ring any bells? >> no, we were never made aware of that flight

let's bring in bloomberg's global business managing editor and asia, emma o'brien.a, what else do investors need to know at this stage? it feels like a thread has been pulled and the whole thing is starting to unravel. emma: yeah, it's hard to believe that this only started about a week ago, but since then, this hindenburg research report has really ignited a snowball effect when it comes to the adani empire. it appears as though they are bringing their reputation of india's markets and why the system along with it given how tight adani is, to the government there particularly prime minister modi. francine: are there systemic risk invocations? how should we look at this and how it could affect global wall street? emma: i think it's a very high-risk of that happening despite what the ministers as their. at the moment, i think it's definitely a very severe reputational hit for india. people look at adani and the allegations of fraud, a juicing of stocks there, all the sort of allegations that were raised by hindenburg, and they see that as reflecting on india and its

o'brien had actually asserted a lot of executive privilege here. but this investigation is still wide-ranging, ongoing, and, of course he at the same time that jack smith is investigating the classified documents at trump's home, he's also investigating january 6th. >> we also mentioned the documents found at vice president mike pence's home. what's the latest on that story? >> reporter: that fbi search was five hours today, and it yielded one classified document. it also yielded six other documents that the fbi said did not contain classified markings but that the fbi still took for further examination. the former vice president was not at home at the time. he was actually in california visiting family. the birth of two new grandchildren. but, you know, anderson, the fact that one classified document was found, it could actually complicate the situation for mike pence because the justice department has to decide how to proceed here. and if there is any need to appoint yet another special counsel, especially since pence is considering this run for

. >> dana: full coverage on fox former national security advisor robert o'brien joins us in a moment. first foreign correspondent trey yengst is live in kiev, ukraine. good morning, trey. >> good morning. today russian president vladimir putin made his state of the nation address. putin's threats against the west gained the most attention and his comments an announcement that russia is suspending its participation in the new start nuclear weapons treaty. inspections of nuclear facilities under the arms control agreement have been halted since 2020. now this is a further fracture between russia and the west. his speech was more than an hour and a half and filled with falsehoods. >> responsibility for formeanting the ukrainian conflict and increasing number of victims license tirely with the western elites and current regime in kiev where the ukrainian people are essentially strangers. >> it was russia that invaded ukraine under false pretenses. his remarks come 24 hours after biden visited kiev. curing his trip biden announced a 450 million military add page are for ukraine that is ant

the special counsel also subpoenaed former national security adviser, robert o'brien, in relation to both the january 6th investigation and a matter of classified documents. meanwhile, pence is dealing with his own classified document situation. yesterday the fbi conducted a five hour search of pence's home in indiana. pence and his legal team have agreed to the search beforehand, following the elevation last month at the former vice president was still in possession of classified records. as a result of yesterday search, authorities found one additional classified document on pence's property, plus six other pages without classification markings. a lot to unpack. now, joining me to discuss all of this, nbc senior national politics reporter, jonathan owie. jonathan, thank you so much for joining us and packing with us. what else do you know about the subpoena and what does it mean for the special counsel investigations? >> good morning, sam. as you said, there was some negotiations between pence and jack smith team for quite awhile about it doing something in voluntarily. there are,

robert o'brien, good to have you with us. we'll have more to talk about as we move forward and head into the presidential election period as well. thanks. good to see you, sir. >> look forward to seeing you again, martha. >> martha: you bet. thank you. we have breaking news this afternoon. the prosecutors have now dropped one of the charges against alec baldwin. but are they betting that by doing that he may do some jail time for the killing on his movie set? attorney mark eiglarsh weighs in after this. with an affordable home loan from newday and save hundreds every month. there are no upfront fees to apply. (vo) if you've had thyroid eye disease for years and things are a no-go because you keep seeing double, it's not too late for another treatment option. to learn more visit treatted.com that's treatt-e-d.com. a lot of new dry eye patients in my office tell me about their frequent dry eyes, which may point to dry eye disease. millions of americans were estimated to have it. they also tell me they've tried artificial tears

but they certainly reviewed those charges, but they decided not to bring them. >> okay, tim o'brien, us >> thanks, lindsey. >> new fallout in the death of tyre nichols. and the officer who's now fired, and why. red, and why. this'll help. vicks vaporub? vicks vaporub's ...medicated vapors go straight to the source of your cough... ...so you can relieve your cough to breathe easier. vicks vaporub. fast-acting cough relief. teeth sensitivity is so common. it immediately feels like somebody's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. and my patents say: “you know doc, it really works." when you really need to sleep. you reach for the really good stuff. and my patents say: zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com. m

miles o'brien was there that day , and he has overlooked. >> where you what happened? columbia-houston, tom's check. >> the loss of the space shuttle columbia is one of those occasions. it happened the first day of february 2003. we remember as if it were yesterday. the junior senator from arizona, mark kelly certainly does. >> i was asleep and i planned to get up and watch the landing on tv. >> the second to end in death. reporter: that is where i was, covering the disaster on cnn. mark kelly was then a nasa astronaut with one mission under his belt. his twin brother scott was also in the corps. when did you know that there was trouble? >> i get a phone call from my brother and he says that they lost communications and they lost tracking. at the same time. at that point, i knew that this was not likely to turnout as any of us had hoped. reporter: the orbiter had disintegrated as it streaked across texas. the crew of seven, and kelly knew it. he raced to the johnson space center near his home in houston. >> nowhere in our contingency plan did we ever expect the space s

today trump's former national security adviser robert o'brien appeared in washington, d.c. there multiple grand juries are investigating trump for january 6th and also for improperly holding classified documents. paula reid joins us. what do we know. >> reporter: we know he was subpoenaed in both investigations. but the january 6th investigation as well as the classified document probe. he could really be incredibly valuable because he was in the administration on january 6th. he considered resigning but didn't so he could provide a lot of details on what was going on during that time and as the national security adviser, he should have been involved in the handling of classified materials and could have some insight into how those documents ended up at mar-a-lago but there is expected to be a privilege fight here. former president's attorneys told me they intend to invoke privilege. he raised it previously so it's unlikely the prosecutors got all the answers they wanted today and should potentially expect litigation. >> he participated with the january 6th investigation, i

what is this with robert o'brien being subpoenaed? >> we have the national security adviser robert o'brien being subpoenaed in both investigations. both the investigation into the 2020 election and efforts to subvert the outcome and also the investigation into the retention of classified documents. he could be a really valuable witness. he considered resigning after january 6. he stayed on. he talked about what is going on after january 6. and the national security council should have been involved in handling of classified materials. he may be able to provide some insight into how those documents wound up down at mar-a-lago. we also learned that investigators have talked to former acting department of homeland security secretary chad wolf. all this goes to say this is a very active and on going investigation. i talked to sources in trump world. you talk to sources in trump world. they were all very much like us to believe this is all done, wrapping up. but the fact they're very actively pursuing new witnesses, some very high profile

robert o'brien, i texted robert o'brien and mike pompeo last night they said absolutely didn't happen went up and down the chain it didn't happen. john bolton who hates the president "never happened." why they wanted to blame president trump it i don't get. blaming the prior administration doesn't work. mark milley evidently and secretary of defense told him on afghanistan don't pull out it's going to be a disaster. that's what they testified. he said blow this thing up on wednesday, the president of the united states,and the military goes no, not going. to say. >> ainsley: mark milley said this. >> brian: biden said i told them to blow it up wednesday. they blow it up saturday. wait, the president said to take it out. find a way to take it out, the same way you found to take us out of afghanistan, in the worst military operation in the history of the nation, but, again, now you say i'm pushing back on the president when it comes to a chinese balloon? would we have ever known about it had the press in billings, montana not wrote about it? we would have had the meeting with the secreta

mikey mac o'brien squatting and spinning ping pong ball ping pong balls through through ways. something a little different, too little different . that's all i can say about nothing else. you find this stuff. alright jason. thank you scouring the internet scouring alright. thanks next at 11. there's so much violence against these women. my house called 911 multiple times growing safety concerns in a san francisco neighborhood where residents say prostitution is now taking over the streets. the 11 o'clock news on ktvu. fox two starts now crackdown on prostitution in san francisco's mission district. good evening, everyone i'm mike mibach julie julie haener neighbors along cap street say they witnessed solicitation and assault as they deal with traffic honking and other loud noises. now the city is stepping in starting this week, barriers will go up a long cap street between 18th and 20 seconds. as ktvu is, elissa harrington tells us there is hope that these barriers will keep people from cruising the area. huge line of traffic. francisco's cap street , shared pictures and video

learned about, shan, for the former vice president but also as of course paula pointed out robert o'brien, chad wolf. when you look at what we do know publicly, what has increased in terms of the knowledge we have publicly, does this give you an indication of where things may be headed? >> well, only in the sense that it's probably more towards the end of the investigation stage than the middle, let's say, because these are folks who are higher up and you want to work your way up the ladder towards them. so i don't know that we can say whether it's headed for indictment or not. i mean, from the public reporting it seems lick there's plenty of evidence for indictment. these are the sorts of folks you would want to subpoena towards the end of the investigation for a couple reasons, one, offensively for the prosecutors they could provide incriminating evidence against trump because they are close to him and presumably talking to him about these subjects. two, you also want to do it from a defensive posture because you want to lock them in so they can't change their stories later to be more h