o.-i l. oil they believe they're owning oil but the underlying machinations of the derivative are such where they are hedging within the derivative and the folks that are owning this are actually taking losses and up markets do you covered that particular story chris i don't know how to cope with that one but i'm very familiar with the way in which the the different types of oil e.t.f. operates and you and your point earlier about. e.t.s. with different degrees of leverage well taken the basic pleasure model of e.t.f. is not leveraged i'm just making that point but but yes it does and i agree with you it does destroy the whole distort the underlying pricing mechanism now the oil the problem with the e.t.f. or any t.f. which basically holds its position in the markets using derivatives i mean the people who own the product don't know what's going on under the bonnet this was the one point of my life to do they have to tell you that you know their customers do not know what is being done in their n