>> guest: it was hard them first place i started was mcdonald's, of course, near oakbrook and they would not help me. they said, oh, there are two books written about mcdonald's, one written by ray -- not really, he had a guest writer -- read those. said, no, that's nice but i need to find out more. and they never helped me. the families of ray and joan, as union possessed it -- the third wife -- what was left of the families were reluctant to work with me. so it was hard, and what i found and what was so much fun in the research process -- you know this from your work -- also frustrating, too -- is just reverse engineering things. so, i started -- first i start extractioning things, obituaries, old archives go to the harold washington library in san diego because they lived out thunder lives in san diego. the public library there. in search of what is very hard to find because it's not all digitized yet and it's not all -- we all thing everything you go on the internet and just type in a search word ask ask you find everything but it doesn't work that way, especially when you're looking