he was he was certainly enlarging the truth on his tax plans and on what he was saying about obamacare medicare he has got some explaining to do over the coming days and weeks because he this is one of the problems with romney that he does play fast and loose with the facts sometimes and it's got him in trouble before i think the question is how hard you are on him on these you know how how serious those mistakes are and whether you concentrate more on the style of barmah because that's what he's now got to make up rather than getting too wonky again to sort of pointy headed and academic but term sure there's got to be there's going to be some explaining and also you know the the big difference in. their present facts is that a farmer is still trying to help the less well off and romney is trying to help the better better off that fact needs to be delineated i don't know whether you would agree with that maybe used you all i don't run it as a weighted by romney's you know in his newfound affection for the no i think it's a very good point rachel do you want to handle that i would because it's t

when he stripped medicare to institute obamacare, my doctor no longer wants to see me now. medicare does not pay him enough anymore for him to see me. here i am, i am out on a limb. that lim has been cut off underneath me. host: an undecided voter from maryland. kirk. caller: i believe it is hard for debates -- i watched them as much as possible. both candidates say enough to give you an idea of where they are coming from but not enough to give you a better understanding as far as i can relate. they talk about not having enough jobs in america. both candidates having to create jobs. they do not talking about the immigration or how many people we have in the country to sustain jobs. there is an undertone in the direction we are going. there are both talking about the things they need to change or what they're trying to say to the american people about the direction of the country. i would be more comfortable. i am a war veteran from iraq as well. i get a sense of socialism, if i might be able to say without offending anyone, at times. i am torn. we are the land of liberty and

obamacare takes $716 billion from medicare to spend on obamacare. en their own chief actuary at medicare backs this up. he says you cannot spend the same dollar twice. you cannot claim that this money goes to medicare and obamacare. then they put this to obamacare board in charge of cutting medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors. this board, 15 people. the president is supposed to appoint the next year and not one of them even has to have medical training. social security? if we do not sure of social security, when we run out of ious, when the program goes bankrupt, 25% across-the-board benefit cut kicks in on current seniors in the middle of their retirement. they have of a credible solutions on the table. the tell you about vouchers. the say all these things to try and scare people. here's what we're saying. give younger people, when they become medicare eligible, guaranteed coverage options that you cannot be denied, including traditional medicare. choose your plan. more coverage for middle-income an

barack obama was defending his idea of obamacare and medicare and said for instance, that medicare works because the insurance companies have to make a profit on top of their administrative cost, medicare doesn't have to do that and it's lowered administrative costs and therefore a better deal. he said that romney's idea of premium support helping people buy insurance in the private marketplace, all economists agree the premium support will cause medicare to collapse. >> now that's an arguable point and i think that romney is going to engage him on those issues and try to continue to make the case for private sector health insurance. >> what i found interesting about this exchange is remember, obamacare was supposed to be romney's achilles heel throughout the primaries, his rivals said he wouldn't be able to challenge on that, and i think he proved a lot of people wrong. >> he pushed right through that and went on offense. >> and it's an example of his effort to reach across the aisle. >> bipartisanship, that's interesting. >> paul: let's look at an ad, a question how the democrats and o

obamacare takes $716 billion from medicare to spend on obamacare. even their own chief actuary of medicare backs this up. you cannot claim that this money goes to medicare and obamacare. and then they put this new obamacare board in charge of cutting medicare each and every year. this board is 15 people. not one of them even has to have medical training. social security, when the program goes bankrupt, a 25% across-the-board benefit cuts kicks in on current seniors in the middle of their retirement. we will stop that from happening. they have not put a credible solution on the table. he will tell you about the vouchers. he will say all these things to try to scare people. give younger people guaranteed coverage options. you cannot be denied, including traditional medicare. more coverage for middle income people and total coverage for the poor and sick. >> i heard that the death panel argument from sarah palin. let's talk about medicare. we saved $716 billion and put it back into medicare. we cut the cost to medicare. we stopped overpaying insurance c

but also under obamacare medicare is scheduled to go insolvent within 12 years. how do we protect medicare for florida's three million seniors and save it for the next generation without massive slashes and cuts in benefits? >> moderator: congressman? mack: thank you for the question. it's important. it's one that i think a lot of people who are watching this debate have. they're wondering what's happening to medicare. um, you know, this is, by the way, this isn't an entitlement, this is something that people have paid into. this is something that they've earned. this is something that they, it's theirs. it's what they've been saving for and working on for a long time. now, senator nelson cast the deciding vote to cut $700 billion out of medicare. what did senator nelson say before the vote? he said it is unconscionable to whack away medicare advantage from our seniors. but that's exactly what he did. senator, i agree with you. that was unconscionable. there is almost a million be, over a million seniors in the state of florida on medicare advantage because of you

project that is going to back fill hundreds of billions of dollars a year worth of what the obamacare took out of medicare fact a little ploy to get around appropriations and get around admitting that obamacare is defunding medicare advantage and other programs. so as a result, this is not something congress actually appropriated. this is something that was envisioned for small projects where they couldn't come to congress but they wanted to do the tests. this is larger than every test they've done combined. it's clearly a $9 billion, $8 billion backdoor way of spending money. but more importantly what we ask them for five months ago in may was how did you make this decision? what was the procedure? what justifying having the actual tests in order to test? only today, only on threat of subpoena did they deliver a lot of paper. thousands of pages of simply -- >> neil: how would this -- i understand. how would this program, whatever you call it, hide the real cost of healthcare? what does it do? >> guest: what they are saying, as the test is going to fund what obamacare took away, you are going to see dolla

under obamacare, medicare is scheduled to go insolvent within 12 years. to how do we protect medicare for florida's 3 million seniors and save it for the next generation without massive slashes and cuts in benefits? >> congressman. >> this question is one that a lot of people have. they are wondering what is happening to medicare. this is not an entitlement. this is something that people have paid into. this is something that they have earned. it is fares. it is what they have been saving for and working for for a long time. senator nelson cast a deciding vote to cut $700 billion out of medicare. what did senator nelson's day before the vote? he said it is unconscionable to walk away medicare and vantage from our seniors. that is what he did. i agree with you. that was unconscionable. there are over a million seniors in florida on medicare advantage because of your vote. they will lose their medicare a bandage. you talk a good game. you say things like -- i offered an amendment. you can and offer all the amendments to one. it did not pass. you still voted

one exchange, he suggested seep yours receive more benefit under obamacare than medicare. >> a seniorre, ask yourself do you have more benefits today? you do. >> the vice president's statement was false according to data from the congressional budget office. cbo says for every $500 obamacare spends on preventive services in prescription drugs it cuts the rest of medicare by $7,385. a cut to spending ratio of nearly 15 to 1. another question over obamacare had this clash of opinion. >> the actuary came to congress and said one out of six hospital and nursing homes are going to go out of business as a result of this. >> not that what they said. >> ryan is right, biden is wrong. >> the obama administration actuary richard foster told the house budget committee our simulations suggest 15% of the hospital providers would become unprofitable as a result of the spending cut. whether the expiration will lead to higher taxes on small business owners as ryan maintained biden said this. >> 97% of the small business in america pay less than, make less than $250,000. let me tell you who some of th

obamacare takes $716 billion from medicare to spend on obamacare. even their own chief actuary at medicare backs this up. he says, you can't spend the same dollar twice. you can't claim the money goes to medicare and obamacare. and they put the new obamacare board, in charge of cutting medicare every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors. the board is 15 people, the president is supposed to appoint them next year. not one has to have medical training. social security, if we don't shore up social security, when we run out of ious, a 25% across-the-board benefit kicks in on current seniors in the middle of retirement. they haven't put a credible solution on the table. he will tell but vouchers, he will say all of these things to try to scare people. here's what we are say being -- give younger people when they become medicare eligible, guaranteed coverage options that you can't be denied, including traditional medicare. choose the plan and medicare subsidizes your plan, and more coverage for middle-income people and total benef

under obamacare, medicare is scheduled to go insolvent in 12 years. on seniors and save it for the next generation without massive slashes and cuts in benefits? >> thank you for the question. this is an important question. i think a lot of people who are watching this have -- they are wondering what is happening to medicare. by the way, this is not an entitlement. this is something people have paid into. this is something they have earned. this is something that is theirs. it is something they have been saving for and working on for a long time. senator nelson cast the deciding vote to cut $700 billion out of medicare. at what the senator nelson said before the vote? he said it is unconscionable to whack away medicare advantage from our seniors, but that is exactly what he did. i agree -- it is unconscionable. over 1 million seniors in the state of florida on medicare advantage, because of your vote, your vote, they will lose their medicare advantage. you talk a good game and say things like, i successfully offered an amendment. you can successfully of

patients because of the cuts that were put on medicare bio-- by obamacare not take any more patients on medicare so that is why we will repeal obamacare. and if you are a college student at the university here or wherever you are going to school, and you graduate, a big difference between whether the president's re-elected or whether paul ryan and i are elected, if you graduate and he is your president, good luck finding a job. if i'm your president, we will do everything in our power to make sure jobs come back and are waiting for college graduates. (applause). >> by the way, when you graduate, you will probably have $10,000 or $20,000 or more of student debt. that means you will find out you will pay interest on that for a long-term and paying back the principle but there is more debt you don't know about, over the last four years, the president has borrowed and put on the balance sheet of debt held by the public, almost as much debt held by the public as all the prior presidents, combined. that debt, by the way, will not be paid back by my generation we

medicare. the obamacare -- money not coming directly from beneficiary. money that is coming out of medicare. going pay for obamacare. so robbing our seniors of $716 billion to pay for obamacare. in with regards to medicare. we have a plan. unfortunately, the democrats do not have a plan other than let it go bankrupt in 2022. so the ad was pretty accurate. all the fact checker said the ad was mislading, unfalse, nonsensical, it was ridiculous. that's what the fact checker said about the ad. they were accurate. .. i'm going to protect and preserve medicare. and the houseplant come if you're 50 fighters on older, nothing changes, correct? >> i'm trying to think of a delicate way to say this, but the thought that medicare is good enough for appearance, good enough for us and somehow it's not good enough for children, we're going to throw them under the bus and eliminate medicare as we know it. and you know, congressman, the economists in "the wall street journal" has said that she would invite and others voted to do with medicare as we know it. it is good enough for us and our parents and ought

obamacare takes $716 billion from medicare to spend on obamacare, even their own chief actuary of medicare backs this up saying you can't spend the same dollar twice claiming this money goes to medicare and obamacare, and them they put the new obamacare board in charge of cutting medicare each and every year in ways that lead to denied care for current seniors. this board, by the way, 15 people, the president is supposed to appoint them next year, and not a one of them has to have medical training. in social security, when we run out of the ious, the program is bankrupt, a 25% across the board benefit cut kicks in on current seniors in the middle of retirement. we'll stop that from happening. they have not put a credible solution on the table. he talks about vouchers, all of these things to scare people. here's what we are saying. give younger people, when they become medicare eligible, guaranteed coverage options that you can't be denieded like traditional medicare. choose your plan, and medicare subsidizes premiums. not as much for the wealthier people, more coverage for the middle, and

the congressman doesn't like the affordable health care act or obamacare medicare money to continue to look for ways to make medicare stronger. it's a safety net has been around for generations for seniors and it's important. it works for seniors. we ought not be destroyed and quite frankly, you have not stepped forward and have to make medicare solvent for the future. >> moderator: representative rehberg. >> you don't take $716 billion. he said benefits are not going to be cut. that's not the issue. doctors and hospitals will not be fully and fairly reimbursed for seniors. so when president obama say you're not going to lose your insurance, nell, the problem of somebody may not be able to give you that insurance. the difficulty as the doctor may not be able to see you. we must put that back by repealing obamacare and by putting the money back into medicare. we can make a stronger come and make it last longer and begin the real serious discussion of a bottom-up solution rather than burn from washington down. >> tom moody to senator tester. >> are frequently referred to as the only work

medicare. that was a promise to people. let's get the facts straight. 12 years it's bankrupt. there's two proposals. obamacareon out of medicare, sets up an unelected board called ipab making decisions for seniors, rationing care for seenons. that's the challenge and core. the other alternative is there's no change for anyone at or near retirement. if you're 54 and under, you can keep medicare. that's the plan. now, there's two options. the difference is choice. in the premium support, there's two options at no cost. if you want to add some, you have the choice to add policies or one that fits into what you'd like. you know, clearly, these are two very different solutions, and it is going bankrupt. heitkamp: don't trust me or any partisan source. go out and take a look at the keiser family foundation website. it states clearly that if you repeal the health care law, the solvency date is four years, and so i'm not buying your facts on that. the other point that i want to point out, you talk about the $719 billion. it is -- it is thee biggest fib in this whole campaign, and everybody who looks at it says it is

this special project will backfill hundreds of billions of dollars a year worth what the obamacare took out of medicarelittle ploy to get around appropriations and get around admitting that obamacare is defunding medicare advantage and other programs. bill: so the point he is making there is quite obvious. now florida congressman john mica is republican and also sits on the house oversight and government reform committee. sir, good morning to you. thank you for coming back and joining our program here. >> good to be with you. we are facing a little bit of bait and switch from the administration just before the election on health care. bill: let me, let me go to the point that issa is making here. he says these documents are designed to, well, what they will uncover they're designed to buy the election. that's a heavy charge. what about that? >> well, unfortunately, i think, we are correct in what we found so far in our committee and what chairman issa is asking for today in documentation. what's happening is as parts of the obamacare plan are going into effect, and to mask some of the cuts in programs

by paul ryan that millions of seniors would use medicare advantage even under the existing plan this administration has. could they pay for fo for obamacarehout raiding medicare under the obama plan. >> absolutely not. i thought we saw a complete tras in style and substance. the vice president's style was bluster, and i don't think we need that in a leader. ryan's style was solutions. what the president has done is taken $716 billion from estimate, not our estimate, that's the congressional budget office to pay for obama care, the exchangs of their program. that ruins medicare for so many seniors and puts in place there 15-member independent payment advisory board to make certain that they quote, save that money. jamie: paul ryan points out and this is interesting because you are a surgeon we'll have nobody potentially on that committee that has a medical background. >> that's exactly right. jaime as you know by law a majority of them cannot have practiced medicine or not have served patients. this is just astounding, as opposed to the positive solution that we put forward which is to make it so that those in and nyiri taoeurplt don't see

was brought up, they'll kill him on that. >> i agree with doug, he really hit obama hard on obamacare and medicaret how the obamacare law december mates medicare, and medicare advantage as well which is also a very popular program because it is partly private. i think what you'll see coming up in the next couple of weeks, but certainly in the vice presidental debate, martha, as you mentioned, is that paul ryan is this is his signature issue, and the point romney was making, the point ryan is going to make is look, younger voters, sort of my generation and younger -rpb , we all recognize that medicare and all of these other programs are not going to be here for us unless there is serious reform. what romney and ryan want to do is save these programs for the younger voters. what romney also did very effectively, is he understands, and ryan updzs ver understands very well that older voters have to understand that nothing will change for them. in the future they will be taken care of but younger voters will have the option of medicare or the premium support option to choose from. that is an argument t

and also, i was wondering how much did obamacare take from medicare? i am on medicare. like i said, mitt romney was right. they do feel like victims. it is a very scary. host: we got your point. guest: in terms of the cuts to obamacare -- medicare, that is over 10 years, not all at once. it is not to the beneficiaries. mostly specialty providers is where it would come from, not your daily position or your monthly physician. that is where he gets the money from. host: north augusta, south carolina. an independent their, donna. caller: a want everyone to know this, medicare is awful. i have cancer right now. my doctors that i had, i had cancer three times and two years. at a very close to my doctor because he saved my life. and he quit because of this darn health care bill. and i also have another doctor who stopped. that is the thing people do not know. you are not going to have a doctor. it is awful. and i am sick of this. host: how do know you are not going to have a doctor? caller: it is my doctor. i am losing the dr.. that is how i know. i am not going by a democrat

. >> medicare for current retirees he's cutting $16 billion from the program. >> he's giving the false impression that obamacare is robbing from grandma's medicare piggy bank. this is not true. here's what the $1,716,000,000,000 number means. obamacare reduces future spending on medicare. how? by reducing payments to insurance companies hospitals and other providers. it does not affect a single benefit to medicare recipients. unfortunately that did not stop the polls from bending to romney's favor last night. 67% of registered voters who watched the debate say that mitt romney won. 25% think president obama did. does win ago debate mean that the president could see a drop in the national polls for swing states? is this just poll over saturation. in 2008, a near perfect model was built at 538.com. he called obama over mccain in 49 out of 50 states, got all 35 senate races right and predicted the popular vote within one percentage point. he's out with a new book, the signal and the noise. all right, nate silver, thanks for coming inside the war room. let's talk numbers. what's the predicted merit of these instant

medicare peer that is what mitt romney says. here is how it works. it would repeal obamacare. the 60 million senr citizens who are now getting services would lose them. they would get preventive care without deductibles, copays pier $3.9 billion. that is what happened with mitt romney's program. >> let me look at the big picture here for a second. obama -- they are both completely disingenuous about this. the voucher plan will cost people seriously as a move down the road, in terms of services. there is no way we can continue to spend what we spend now on medicare without some serious changes, not just tweaking. >> romney says the president has colon $16 billion from medicare. is that accurate? >> it is in terms of what they are predicting over the years, the reducing costs for medicare, to make obamacare neutral. what he does not mention is that his own running mate, paul ryan, made the same projections for his plan. nina is right, both are not being totally straight with the voters. president obama goes after romney and ryan in the way the democrats go after the gop when it

they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar turning medicare into a piggy bank for obamacare. their own actuary from the administration said one out of six hospital and nursing homes will go out of business as a result of this. 7.4million seniors are projected lose the immediate toda medicare advantage they have. >> more people signed up for medicare advantage after the change. >> mr. vice president, i know -- mr. vice president i know you're under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground. [laughter] >> but i think people would be better served if we don't keep interrupting each other. jon: senior nation correspondent john roberts is live at a romney rally in richmond, virginia. i'm guessing, john, that both campaigns are saying they won. >> absolutely. both campaigns fo with high praise for their respective candidates. both campaigns aggressively attacking the other over what was said. the romney campaign going after joe biden about his comments about the consulate in benghazi. state department officials testified before a congressional hearing that they had turned down requ

obamacare takes $716 billion from medicare to spend on obamacare. even their own chief acuary at medicare backs this up. he says you can't spend the same dollar twice. you can't claim this money goes to medicare and obamacare. and then they put this new obamacare board in cutting medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors. this board, by the way, it's 15 people. the president is supposed to appoint them next year. and not one of them even has to have medical training. and social security, if we don't shore up social security, when we run out of the i.o.u.s when the program goes bankrupt, a 25% across-the-board benefit cut kicks in on seniors in the middle of their retirement. we're going to stop that from happening. they have haven't put a credible solution on the table. he'll tell you about vouchers. he'll say all these things to try to scare people. here's what we're saying. give younger people when they become medicare eligible guaranteed coverage option thalz you can't be denierkd including traditional

obamacare takes $716 billion from medicare to spend on obamacare. ays you can't spend the same dollar twice. you can't claim this money goes to medicare and obamacare. >> what we did is saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to medicare. we cut the cost of medicare. >> here is the problem, they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar turning medicare into a piggy bank for obamacare. >> steve: okay. so two different points of view. let's do some fact checking right now. who is right? betsy mccoy, new york's former lieutenant governor and author of" the obama health law, what it says and how to overturn it." she watched the debates closely last night. allall right. >> that's a good whopper. >> steve: was their hand caught in the cookie jar? >> yes. this law takes $716 billion out of future medicare funding over the next decade and moves it over to pay for new entitle ams for people under age 65. >> steve: without a doubt, the money is out of medicare? >> yes. let's get it straight, seniors pay for over half the cost of this law. cuts to m

does anybody in america and wisconsin thinks it takes $716 billkion out of medicare and put into obamacare is good for medicare, it is a trap. >> aarp has said that simply is not true, the $716 billion allegation. what was it? this happened in part under tommy thompson's watch. there were excess of overpayments to private insurance companies managing parts of medicare. we ended those. other savings came from negotiations with providers who in anticipation of the affordable care act said this is something we agreed to. then we went after raced -- waste but no guarantee benefit was altered. preventative care and checking the doughnut hole and the solitude was increased by nearly -- by nearly a decade. >> you want to repeal would you call obamacare. governor, you will need a lot of things to line up for you to do this. you need mitt romney in the white house, and majority in the senate, 60 votes. how will you reveal -- repeal obamacare? >> first off, you do not need 60 votes. because the supreme court said it was attacked. -- it was a tax. it's a budgetary item. all your health insurance prop

. >> they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, turning medicare into a piggy bank for obamacare. >> yes, what is ryan getting at? eleanor? >> this is the $716 billion that the administration took out of medicare advantage, which was going to insurance company -- companies, and they diverted in part to close the donut hole for prescriptions, to provide free, preventative care for seniors. no seniors have lost any benefits. what romney is saying is he would take that money and put it back into the insurance companies. it is a phony argument, and they are trying to pretend the democrats are going to hurt. >> but the republicans. >> are going to hurt medicare when the history of the republican party is medicare in the first place. >> eleanor, the republicans used the $716 billion out of medicare, using medicare as a pig guy bank and giving it to obamacare because they have tested it, they have polled it, they have mentioned it every time they go on television. it is effective. >> not true. >> it is an effective argument and republicans don't have a great >> we didn't start medica i