they say president obamaop wasnt completely honest about health care, said everybody is going to keep their plan. this is more of the same. >> there have been big presidential whoppers. l.b.j.'s gulf of tonkin. weapons of mass destruction. at best it was naivete and not having your facts straight. but there probably was a big old lie in there.in so i think that president trump lies and is canny enough to know that a lot of people know that he lies, and are okay with it. because they're so cynical about presidents and truth. >> how do you hear that? i know you spent a lot of time trying to understand not what we claim regard to truth but what we actually do. have we entered a new phase and a new place as it relates to lying and whether truth still has a place at the table? >> i think everyone has always lied. and i just want to clarify, just by my sitting next to seth, i hate trump. ( laughter ) >> seth divide.vi >> i love that, a little camaraderie. >> and i think-- i think he lies through his teeth. >> do you think he knows that he lies? >> i think in general, exaggerating and stuff,